Posted on 06/23/2005 9:06:58 AM PDT by murphE
New York's massive Roman Catholic population will sit out this weekend's Billy Graham crusade in Queens because its parishes are too busy, spokesmen for the two closest dioceses say.
The 413 parishes in the Archdiocese of New York, representing 2.5 million Catholics, are too involved with school graduations, confirmations and the Vatican's emphasis on the Eucharist during 2005, spokesman Joseph Zwilling said yesterday.
The Graham crusade "asked if it would be possible for our churches to invite their people to come," he said, but "given everything happening in our parishes, especially it being the Year of the Eucharist, we didn't feel it'd be possible to ask our parishes to take on any additional activities."
Across the East River in the Diocese of Brooklyn, which lists 1.8 million Catholics, church leaders have also declined involvement, although the crusade will take place there in Flushing Meadows' Corona Park. Spokesman Frank DeRosa cited Year of the Eucharist preparations as a key reason.
Thus, none of that diocese's 217 parishes is among the 1,300 sponsoring congregations for the crusade, which is expected to draw up to 70,000 people a night for what's been billed as the evangelist's last American crusade. Neither are Catholics officially among the 15,000 volunteers amassed for the event.
The Rev. A.R. Bernard, crusade chairman, professed some puzzlement over the archdiocese's reasoning, noting Catholic involvement in other crusades.
"Those who were touched by the Catholic charismatic renewal will be there," he predicted. "You cannot judge by the leadership's protests because the lay people will come anyway."
Catholics are still welcome to attend, but the lack of official involvement amazed Graham biographer Bill Martin, who characterized the archdiocese's reasoning as a "change in policy" from Mr. Graham's 1991 Central Park crusade. Back then, he said, 630 Catholic churches cooperated with the crusade and information on the meetings was handed out at St. Patrick's Cathedral.
That 1991 stance had been a huge shift from Mr. Graham's first New York crusade in 1957, he said, when Catholics boycotted the event and Catholic clergy were instructed on how to counter Mr. Graham's preaching.
"So maybe something's come down from above saying not to be involved in this," Mr. Martin added.
Mr. Zwilling said he didn't remember any such cooperation from churches back then, but Catholic clergy in 1991 did receive names of Catholics who answered Mr. Graham's altar calls at the Central Park event.
In a column to be released Saturday in the diocesan newspaper the Tablet, Brooklyn Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio outlined the significant divide over how Catholics and Protestants understand salvation.
The bishop said he welcomed Mr. Graham into the area and promised to follow up on any names given to them by crusade organizers.
To forestall objections of "sheep stealing," crusade policy is that all Catholics attending the event who sign a card signifying a desire for salvation are referred to the diocese.
Another Graham biographer, David Aikman, said Mr. Graham had a "good relationship" with many Catholic prelates, such as the late Boston Cardinal Richard Cushing, who in 1964 praised the evangelist's talent for converting non-Christians, adding, "I only wish we had half a dozen men of his caliber to go forth and do likewise."
In 1997, Mr. Graham told New Man magazine, an evangelical publication, that "through the years I have made many friends within the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, when we hold a crusade in a city now, nearly all the Roman Catholic churches support it.
"And when we went to Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota, for the crusade [last year], we saw St. Paul, which is largely Catholic, and Minneapolis, which is largely Lutheran, both supporting the crusade. That wouldn't have happened 25 years ago."
I admire Mr. Graham's lifelong work but note that he has never ventured into the truly meaningful debates of the day: abortion, homosexuality, and the secularization of society. Indeed, Mr. Graham represents an era reminiscent of the pre-1980s, when Evangelical Christians kept their religious and moral beliefs to themselves. Mr. Graham's failure to engage in the culture wars has definitely clouded the opinion I had of him when I was a child (I'm a cradle Catholic, but my maternal grandpa was Southern Baptist and a fan of Mr. Graham's).
You said it sister.
Give them the smallest peg, or what appears so, not to you, but to them;- the smallest peg, on which to hang a hope of salvation without being in or actually reconciled to the church by the sacrament of penance,- and all the arguments you can address to them to prove the necessity of being in the church in order to be saved, will have no more effect on them than rain on a ducks back. You may bring them in the church for aesthetic reasons, by the grandeur and pomp of your liturgy, your taste in church decoration, your solemn and soul-entrancing music, even for intellectual reasons, but never as the necessary means of saving their souls. St. Augustine wrote his Confessions, but not usually do those converts write the history of their conversion, who were led to the church by the need they felt of getting rid of their sins, and of supernatural grace to assist them to lead an upright spiritual life. ... There can be no more fatal mistake than to soften, liberalize, or latitudinize this terrible dogma, Out of the church there is no salvation, or to give a man an oppurtunity to persuade himself that he belongs to the soul of the church, though an alien from the body.
Real simple: There is no Salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church.Oh, b-rother. There is no salvation outside of Jesus, ya nut.
Fr. Feeney never had to recant his position through all of the persecution he endured.
Any idea of "anonymous Christianity" is pure speculation. And ultimately it undermines the teachign of the Church.
There is not one dogmatic statement that indicates that Baptism of Desire or Baptism of Blood conveys the same character as Baptism of Water and Spirit. We hope for it in our weak and imperfect personal faith and understanding but nothing like that is part of revealed doctrine.
Millions and millions do go to Hell is the Catholic teaching. The way is narrow, many are invited and few get in.
Aquinas states two things, That even a just man with grace will fall into mortal sin. And secondly if someone has no access to Christ and still seeks him honestly, that God will send an Angel to minister to him. Whether that happens to our Protestant, Orthodox and Jewish, Muslim and Pagan friends in the time between the last second of life and the first second of death is known only to God, that person and the Spirits involved.
All of the citations used by Fr. Most can be addressed more accurately with an understanding of EENS that is consistent with the more direct statements by the Holy See. Fr. Most neglects to quote the Council of Florence but rather just alludes to it. I suspect he does this because it flies in the face of much of what he writes.
"[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."
Ignorance and good feelings and intentions are simply not enough and they are not equal to Christ's dying on the Cross, establishing his Church and giving us the Sacraments to enable us to participate in his gift of salvation.
God is the just Judge. Trust in him. We don't have to add to the deposit of Faith in order to make ourselves feel better. As Gerry Matatics said to me one time when referring to his daughter who died in childbirth (he baptized her immediately) "But if I was too late and if I'm graced enough to get to Heaven, if I don't see my daughter there, I'm not going to cross my arms and tell God that 'Hey! Something's wrong up here!"
Ah, those that want to start flame wars are out and about today. You get the prize for being first on this thread.
Clemenza's post was #23, the first flame was at #4. IMO.
Oh, b-rother. There is no salvation outside of Jesus, ya nut.
Ya can't know Jesus outside of his Church, ya nut.
Post number 4 just states Catholic doctrine.
And is not the Church the Body of Christ, according to the express witness of Scripture? "Let them become the body of Christ, if they wish to live by the Spirit of Christ. None lives by the Spirit of Christ but the Body of Christ" (St. Augustine, Tract. in John, XXVI, 14). Christ Himself explains this clearly: "As the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep. And other sheep I have that are not of this fold: them also I must bring. And they shall hear my voice: And there shall be one fold and one shepherd" (John 10:15-6), as does the Apostle: "Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it: That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life:" (Eph. 5:26-7).
I think churches should get involved with the Billy Graham Crusade.
No salvation outside Jesus Christ you mean.
How do you think that you are saved through Jesus Christ?
Cardinal Egan doesn't have time to be concerned about the man who has preached the Gospel before more people than any man in the history of mankind (including JPII).
He has to "prepare" for the Year of the Eucharist, which is half over.
Why?
How many false churches and how many true Churches do you think should get involved with the crusade?
I severely disagree with his decision. My local church would love to have gotten involved with the crusade. I'm going on my own to hand out flyers.
That's not the point. Billy Graham is has led many to Jesus and why not get involved? I respect the man and his dedication to the gospel of Jesus.
I'm curious as to how you believe someone is saved through Jesus Christ when so many disagree on how he is the savior, what he actually did in the Scriptures, what he meant when he said the things he said and how one sifts through the various contradictory positions in order to know what is necessary to believe in order to be saved.
Oh but it is. Our Lord was very specific.
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