Church cool to Graham crusade

The World Peace Herald ^ | 06/23/05 | Julia Duin

[Gerard.P]

It would be the most charitable thing be for the Cardinal to address Dr. Graham and ask him to convert to the one true Church as he nears his end. Being a nice guy, and sincere isn't enough. Error and untruth will not save one.

[Clemenza]

Don't worry, most Catholics in the New York area will do what they always do and simply not attend religious services of any kind, including Sunday Mass.

Visiting Churches in NYC's outer boroughs and many of its suburbs is like visiting an all-female geriatric ward.

[Clemenza]

Ah, the Lefebvre Cult is out and about today.

[Campion]

belief in Jesus is the way to salvation. If so why do most catholics pray not to him but to the Virgin Mary???

The highest form of prayer in the Catholic faith is the Mass, which is offered to the Father through the Son. The idea that faithful Catholics don't pray to God is quit wrong.

[Little_shoe]

Its not my personal experience. However I do have a friend who is a Youth minister who has told me of his expierences in the PHILIPPINES talking to catholics there. These are the people that daily go to confession and say the Hail Mary's or whatever the priest tells them to say.

P.S. I dont beleive that being ritualistic will help you get to heaven. Its called the grace of God which puts me where I could never get on my own.

[Dominick]

I agree woodstock that belief in Jesus is the way to salvation.

No Jesus is Salvation, cf John 6:53.

If so why do most catholics pray not to him but to the Virgin Mary???

We pray to God, we ask him for Mercy. We ask the Blessed Virgin to Pray for us, we never ask her or any saints for Mercy, because God alone can grant Mercy. We may say: "Jesus, Have Mercy on us" or, "St. Vitus, Pray for us".

It is an article of faith that Mary, the Mother of Jesus points to Christ. The entirety of the Catholic Mass is worship of God, in the Trinity. We don't even say a Hail Mary as a group during that Mass, though we may pray them silently on our own. Like the little old lady you may ask to Pray for you, or Pray with you, Mary will Pray for or with you, to her Son.

In addition something else i find curious is that they rate church tradition as being equal to the "Bible."

The Bible is the Canon of scripture that was assembled from Church Tradition, in about 397. The last Canonical Book (Revelation of the Apocalypse) was not complete until about 55 years after the death of out Lord. During the time before the Canon was fixed in 397 thats all we had. For 20% of the Age of Christendom, there was no Bible, per se.

Perhaps you may want to look at Catholic.com and read up on the Faith of your Fathers, and you Grandmother. Most every one of your questions is answered in detail.

[murphE]

Ah, those that want to start flame wars are out and about today. You get the prize for being first on this thread.

[murphE]

OK. =D

[Campion]

These are the people that daily go to confession

Nobody goes to confession daily.

However I do have a friend who is a Youth minister who has told me of his expierences in the PHILIPPINES talking to catholics there.

So, in other words, you have real live Catholics right here on this thread. Rather than talking to them and asking politely about what they believe, you prefer to make generalizations about all Catholics based on second hand information from a Protestant youth minister talking to Catholics in another country 15,000 miles away.

Whenever someone accuses me -- a 44-yo layman who has been a Catholic since he was baptized at the age of 6 weeks -- of not praying to Jesus, but only to Mary, I always respond by praying for them, directly. Online.

Lord Jesus Christ, my King and my God, I ask you humbly to send down your graces upon 'Little_shoe', that he or she may be moved by an inspired spirit of truth to seek and find the True Faith, where you feed your sheep on Your word of truth, Your Body, and Your Blood. I ask this in Your gracious name, You Who lives and reigns with the Father and the Holy Spirit, One God, forever and ever. Amen.

[k2blader]

So tell me. I'm not RC and never will be. Am I going to hell? Yes or no?

[murphE]

So tell me. I'm not RC and never will be. Am I going to hell? Yes or no?

Where there's breath there is hope. If you die in a state of sanctifying grace, you will got to heaven. If you do not, you cannot.

[k2blader]

This is certainly an odd move by the Pope and the Catholics involved.. Hm.

[Campion]

I doubt that the Pope had anything to do with it.

[k2blader]

I think this issue reveals my deepest difference with the Catholic belief system.

Regardless of what any human says, my salvation is assured. Per the Word and the indwelling Holy Spirit. :-)

[siunevada]

P.S. I dont beleive that being ritualistic will help you get to heaven. Its called the grace of God which puts me where I could never get on my own.

Excellent! You and the Catholics agree on that.

1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it.

Therefore if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself. 2 Cor 5:17-18

2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men.

[te lucis]

23 posts without a thread-derailment attempt. I was beginning to hope...

[Campion]

Regardless of what any human says, my salvation is assured.

We don't believe in any "assured salvation," if by that you are arguing for an antinomian system. ("I can commit any sin I want to and go to heaven without repenting; I'm infallibly saved.")

Most "assured salvation" Protestants aren't antinomians, however. They say that someone who seems saved and then sins grievously and dies without repentance was never saved to begin with. That seems like a dodge to me; did they know they were never really saved at the time they were telling people that they were infallibly saved? If they did, then any "assurance" you think you have is sitting on sand, because they thought they had the same assurance.

In the end, it's really quite simple. "He who confesses me before men, I will confess before my heavenly Father. He who denies me before men, I will deny before my heavenly Father." (Mt 10:32-33) "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Mt 7:21)

Make sure your actions (not just your words) confess Christ and do not deny him before men.

[newgeezer]

The pot's right. It's not as if the Reformers were just bored. Ecumenism stinks.

[biblewonk]

Boy, talk about Big Christianity, or Big Religion.