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To: MarMema
Interesting indeed, since this is what I was taught in RC schools while growing up

If we are born deprived of Grace as the RCC teaches, then the absence of Grace must be God's will, or otherwise the Immaculate Conception was an accident.

61 posted on 06/12/2005 8:17:47 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
If we are born deprived of Grace as the RCC teaches

And don't the Orthodox teach that too? At any rate, St. John Chrysostom seemed to think so:

Speak now, speak, let us listen. In the end of your work about which we now think upon, that is, in the newest part of the fourth book, "Saint John" - you say - "of Constantinople denies that original sin is in infants. As you see in this homily, he holds this about the baptized: 'Blessed' - he says - 'God who alone made miracles, who alone made the universe, and converts the universe. Behold how they are brought home to the serenity of liberty who were held a short time before as captives, and that they are citizens of the Church who were in the error of wandering, and that they are made just in lot who were in the confusion of sin. For they are not only free, but also holy, not only holy, but also just, not only just, but also sons, not only sons, but also heirs, not only heirs, but also brothers of Christ, not only brothers of Christ, but also co-heirs, not only co-heirs, but also members, not only members, but also a temple, not only a temple, but also organs of the Spirit. You see how many are the benefits of Baptism: and let no one think that the celestial grace consists only in the remission of sins: we however have computed ten honors. For this reason we also baptize infants; although they are not contaminated by sin, in order that holiness, justice, adoption, heredity, and the brotherhood of Christ may be added to them, and so that they may be his members'". ... I put the very Greek words themselves which were said by John: Dia touto kai ta paidia baptizomen kai toi amartemata ouk ekonta which is in Latin: "And therefore, we baptize infants, altough not having sins". You certainly see that "infants are not polluted by sin" is not said by him, but rather "sins" or that "they do not have sins": Understand rightly, and there is no contention. (St. Augustine, Against Julian, Defender of the Pelagian Heresy, Book I, 6, 21-22)

80 posted on 06/13/2005 10:57:57 AM PDT by gbcdoj (For if thou wilt now hold thy peace, the Jews shall be delivered by some other occasion)
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