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To: Kolokotronis

I hadn't noticed this post of yours before. If I understand you, the Orthodox belief is that the souls confined to hades pending their release all find their discharge simultaneously, at the Last Judgment. Do the Orthodox believe that the ultimate fate of these souls is undetermined, and that some may yet be damned -- perhaps for lack of intercessory prayer by others? That would be very hard to square with Catholic belief.


464 posted on 06/09/2005 2:48:28 PM PDT by Romulus (Der Inn fließt in den Tiber.)
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To: Romulus
"Do the Orthodox believe that the ultimate fate of these souls is undetermined, and that some may yet be damned -- perhaps for lack of intercessory prayer by others? That would be very hard to square with Catholic belief."

Well, the Church talks about a foretatste of what is to come at the Final Judgment. Does that mean that once you die that's it? I don't think so. We pray mightily for the dead at our funerals and memorial services for God to be merciful. Of course the whole Orthodox idea of salvation and damnation are somewhat different from those in the West. Theosis or salvation is becoming "like God", divinized, if you will. The river of fire shown flowing from the throne of Christ in the icon of the Final Judgment is the fire of Gods Love, which will torment those who are not "like God" for an eternity while it will bring indescribable joy to those who have. In any event, all will be in the presence of God, all will feel the love of God, but their reaction to it will be quite different.

I hesitate to get into this because I am no authority on it, but I think if you read some of the Western mystics you get a sense of what I am talking about, especially in some of Merton's writings and definitely in those of +John of the Cross. The Eastern Fathers have a more developed theology of the uncreated light and what it is for man to approach that light, especially the Cappadocian Fathers and +Symeon the New Theologian. The nous of a living person and indeed the physical person himself is liable to be destroyed by an approach to that light. Now Orthodoxy teaches that eternity is spent in the presence not just of the uncreated light, but of the ineffable God Himself. The implications for what happens at the final judgment are quite startling.

Here's a possibility. The Fathers often said that the words which the Bible uses to describe atonement to God or God's wrath or God's justice or God's punishment are only there to make a point to people. As St. Basil the Great said, "It is because fear edifies simpler people." Maybe the Western Church has simply taken a mysterious situation and in attempting to define matters precisely, has used terms and images which, while incorrect, are useful to edify "simpler people."
465 posted on 06/09/2005 3:10:05 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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