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To: xzins; Colin MacTavish; thePilgrim
The small church also has numerous weaknesses, one of which is inadequate resources

Bibles in every pew seems like all the "resources" a healthy church requires.

64 posted on 05/04/2005 7:17:19 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; Corin Stormhands

A quick reading of that pew bible you mentioned, a review of Acts and Paul's letters, reveals bible reading was only one of the many activities in which churches were involved.


65 posted on 05/04/2005 7:26:23 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; xzins
Bibles in every pew seems like all the "resources" a healthy church requires.

That's certainly not true.

11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
-- Eph. 4:11-16 [NASB]
God didn't just give us a book, and leave us on our own to read it and figure out what's going on. He didn't even leave us just with a book and the Holy Spirit to figure out what's going on, but rather, gave us various gifted individuals to provide the church community with a multitude of resources.

The attitude that "Bibles in every pew" is enough to make everything okay is the sort of simplistic analysis that kills churches. A fully functional church is more than a library; it is a thriving community.

I'll say this: the thriving and growing churches do more than place a Bible in every pew.

66 posted on 05/04/2005 7:35:58 PM PDT by jude24 ("Stupid" isn't illegal - but it should be.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; Colin MacTavish; thePilgrim; P-Marlowe
Bibles in every pew seems like all the "resources" a healthy church requires.

So, if a certain large church in a certain western state had "pew Bibles" in a certain sanctuary where a certain musical group performed you would consider that a "healthy church?"

67 posted on 05/04/2005 7:48:13 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (Will work for tagline.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; Corin Stormhands
Bibles in every pew seems like all the "resources" a healthy church requires.

Not this again.

68 posted on 05/04/2005 7:48:35 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Colin MacTavish

***Bibles in every pew seems like all the "resources" a healthy church requires.***

Actually, I have no clue what these criticisms are. I've seen good churches and I've seen bad churches.

Now, I've never been in a mega-church where the pastor could fulfill the duties of the pastor. He has to pass them off to so called "lay pastors." These people have various names and titles from "volunteer" to "prayer warrior" from the many churches I've visited. Unfortunately, none of these people are pastors in the Hebrews 13 sense.

I've also been in some small churches where the pastor was an outsider. I've seen abusive congregations.

But, I have never been in a large church where I knew everyone intimately, including the pastor. I have been in smaller churches where I knew everyone. I have never been in a large church where the pastor could visit everyone when they were sick or in the hospital or under great stress. I have been in smaller churches that were like that. In fact, the last large church I attended, the pastor was only visiting a small subset of the congregation when they were in the hospital. Now, I did try to organize a team to go do this, but you would be amazed at the lack of support from the pastoral staff.

Colin is right. This church we are now in is not perfect and it is not even Reformed in preaching. But, we can pick up the phone and sit down with the pastor over coffee nearly any day. There is something to be said about that. Something in Hebrews 13.

To be honest, my sister, this idea of "inadequate resources" speaks to me more of money than anything else. You can't have a large paid pastoral staff without enough money. You can't have that mini-mall of choices in a small church because of money. You can't have a large building where you host seminars to teach everyone else your church building method and marketing because of money.

Now, I wouldn't want to be the one who tells God that he can't care for the flock without enough money, but I have no problem saying with the author of this article that it is impossible for a pastor to fulfill his duties in these mega churches. After all, we do have the Biblical model for how the Lord dealt with the problem Moses had trying to serve the entire host. He divided the responsibility. This was the God ordained means of handling a large congregation. Unfortunately, "cell leaders" don't have the qualifications to perform this role.

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.


79 posted on 05/05/2005 7:07:04 AM PDT by thePilgrim (And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.)
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