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To: Colin MacTavish; thePilgrim; GLENNS; RnMomof7; ksen; nobdysfool; Alex Murphy; Frumanchu; ...
I'm sorry, but I don't buy the idea that the unregenerate can do some things which are good, but yet the man is still "Totally Depraved."

Don't be sorry. You'll get it eventually.

The point is unregenerate man can do nothing to save himself. The sun shines on both the saints and the reprobate. Hitler liked animals and Buddhists can love their children.

But unless God's grace regenerates him through faith in Jesus Christ, the fallen son of Adam remains as dead as Lazarus.

Salvation is all of God and none of us, ordained by Him from before the foundation of the world, or else it is a salvation of our good works and sensible choices, just like Rome always said it was.

41 posted on 04/20/2005 12:13:29 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Colin MacTavish; Dr. Eckleburg
There's a crucial difference between total depravity and utter depravity.

Total depravity is where every area of a person - the intellect, the will, the body, the soul, etc etc etc - is touched and tainted by the effects of the Fall, and of sin. Let me reemphasize that statement: Total depravity means every area is tainted by depravity. In terms of "doing good things", unregenerate men would do "good" things by accident, as in every case he/she does so with some ungodly desire or end in mind, never with a desire to honor or bring glory to God on His terms.

But "total depravity" doesn't teach that the effects of the Fall apply to just the will. It also affects us physically and psychologically. In several of the threads I've posted this month, Reformed evangelist Francis Schaeffer applies this Biblical teaching in a very practical and encouraging way. I would encourage you to read them (they are short :D ) here and here.

42 posted on 04/20/2005 12:49:15 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Psalm 73)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

***Hitler liked animals and Buddhists can love their children.***

Doesn't that prove that man is not TOTALLY depraved, but only depraved.


45 posted on 04/20/2005 12:59:57 PM PDT by Colin MacTavish
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