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To: Leo Carpathian

Pre Vatican II, I would not be saved. Post Vatican II, I'm saved, but not fully and only because of and through the Catholic Church. All of it, hogwash.

I don't follow the Catholic Church. I follow an Apostolic Church. A Church founded by the Apostles.

I will never achnowledge the Pope as the head of the Christian Church. The head of the Church is Jesus. I am saved because of belief in Christ, not because of belief in the Pope. The Pope is just a man, elected by men.

The dream of uniting Christianity will never happen. It's a fool's errand.

Luke 22: 24 A dispute also arose among them (the 12 Apostles), as to which of them was to be regarded as the greatest.

It would be so easy if Jesus would have just said, "Peter, of course." He did not. It would be easy if the Apostles discussed this again after Jesus's ascension. They did not.

The whole arguement over Peter is based on two verses: Matthew 16:18-19. These are the only verse that the Catholic Church can point to so they can claim all of Christianity. If this was such a pivotal moment, why at the end of the discussion does Jesus focus on himself, rather than Peter.

Matthew 16:20 - Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

But what about Peter?...

3 verses later, Matthew 16:23 - But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."

If Peter was so important he would have been mentioned in verse 20. If Peter was so important he would not be rebuked less than 5 verses after the cornerstone verse of the Catholic Church. (My personal opinion, of course)

The Church is built on the knowledge that Jesus is "the Christ, the Son of the living God". (Matt 16:16) The Church was built on the rock by the Apostles after the Ascension.

I follow an Apostolic Church, and I will never accept the authority of the Catholic Church. So what is there to discuss?


9 posted on 04/11/2005 8:00:31 AM PDT by Tao Yin
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To: Tao Yin
I follow an Apostolic Church, and I will never accept the authority of the Catholic Church. So what is there to discuss?

You can follow anyone you like, who si right or wrong will be judged by the final judgement. Just sad to see how many people are confused and misguided by the evil, worship it, but that is nothing new. Devil is still trying hard.

11 posted on 04/11/2005 8:08:18 AM PDT by Leo Carpathian (FReeeePeee!)
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To: Tao Yin
I will never achnowledge the Pope as the head of the Christian Church. The head of the Church is Jesus. I am saved because of belief in Christ, not because of belief in the Pope. The Pope is just a man, elected by men.

Pope is head of Church just on EARTCH, he is just Jesus’s servant. Nobody ever said that he is equal with Jesus or God! I was noticed that some Protestants on FR, thinks that they know better than Catholics what Catholics thinks and belief.
21 posted on 04/11/2005 9:05:26 AM PDT by Lukasz
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To: Tao Yin

"Luke 22: 24 A dispute also arose among them (the 12 Apostles), as to which of them was to be regarded as the greatest. "

Actually, the Lord did (Luke 22:24-32). In the verse in question, the Lord doesn't question the premise of the dispute. Rather, he first outlines the nature and duties of he who is "protos", i.e. "first" (see Matthew 10:3). In the sentence immediately following, Jesus then says he prayed for Peter that HIS faith would not fail, so that that he (Peter) would confirm the brethren, i.e. that he was to be the servant of all others (i.e. hence, Peter is "first"). That is why the popes use the title "servant of servants".


29 posted on 04/11/2005 12:03:25 PM PDT by Miles the Slasher
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