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To: Frumanchu

Then doesn't that give a person carte blanch to do whatever they want, or commit great immoral sins, as long as they have accepted Jesus into their heart?

I'm not asking to provoke or start an argument, I'm simply asking.


19 posted on 04/01/2005 10:02:48 AM PST by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: diamond6

Once you are a Christian, if you repent of your sins, God will forgive them. However, if you go back to a life of sin and never repent of that, if you die you will die in your sin and be lost.


20 posted on 04/01/2005 10:04:51 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: diamond6
Then doesn't that give a person carte blanch to do whatever they want, or commit great immoral sins, as long as they have accepted Jesus into their heart? I'm not asking to provoke or start an argument, I'm simply asking.

I understand, and it is a valid question. I was simply attempting to illustrate a crucial point as it relates to the original article. We are declared just before God on the basis of Christ's righteousness, not our own. We are declared just before God at the moment of faith, and the lifelong process of our sanctification begins. Our sanctification is not immediate, nor is it fully realized in this life. We will continue to struggle against the flesh, and there is no doubt that we will fail at times to endure these temptations.

Operating under the hypothetical you proposed, we are talking about one incident in his life in which none of us knows the motives of his heart. It could be that Michael Schiavo had malicious intent in the death of his wife. It could be that he simply wished to honor the stated wishes of his wife (assuming he was telling the truth in that regard). If could be that he simply felt it was an act of compassion and that he wished for his wife to be released from this world to be with God. (please understand I am not attempting to support or declare anything about the situation...only using it to illustrate a point)

What we are left with is saying that even though Michael Schiavo is a Christian, declared just before God based on the righteousness of Christ, that he can by this one act (the motives of which none of us knows with 100% certainty) unjustify himself before God based on an unrighteous act that was already expiated and atoned for two thousand years ago on the Cross.

I submit that this is what the author of Hebrews referred to hypothetically in the beginning of Hebrews 6. Christ has forever perfected those who are being sanctified. To say that one sin of one man could bring death again even after that sin has already been atoned for is indeed to put Christ anew to open shame.

Faith without works is dead. Works of righteousness are the fruits of true saving faith in Christ. They add nothing to the righteousness by which we are justified. They are born of faith in, love for, and a desire to please, the God who saved us. While we remain in this corrupt flesh, we unfortunately will never fully or perfectly express those things in the works we do.

25 posted on 04/01/2005 10:26:07 AM PST by Frumanchu (I fear the sanctions of the Mediator far above the sanctions of the moderator...)
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To: diamond6; Frumanchu

While my answer won't be as eloquently stated as Fru's, I'd like to add that the regenerate man, the true believer, will be less apt to consiously sin in that manner.

Sin is constantly trying to tell us, "It's ok - just give in - you'll get away with it", etc - the unsaved doesn't have the provision to escape that temptation as well as a believer would (1 Corintians 10:13).

When I was saved - my eyes were open. Things taht never bothered me now greatly bothered me. Behaviors I had once condoned, I now saw as terrible, blasphemous sins. While the struggle against sin is ever-present, the regenerate man is aware of it, aware of the repercussions, and actively seeks to "starve" that old self into submission.

The last Fruit of the Spirit is "self control" - I submit that Paul listed it last because all the other fruit will grow from being able to control ones self in the midst of temptation.

The idea of sinning "carte blanch" and then simply repenting would never enter into the minds of someone who has been effectually called into the Lord's service and is sealed by the Holy Spirit.


36 posted on 04/01/2005 12:46:53 PM PST by ItsOurTimeNow (John's Oasis. "We Serve Living Water." See our Ad in John 4:14)
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To: diamond6; Frumanchu; Colin MacTavish

***Then doesn't that give a person carte blanch to do whatever they want, or commit great immoral sins, as long as they have accepted Jesus into their heart?***

So, let me see if I understand this right. According to the majority of the Christian Right Wing what Michael did is tantamount to a state murder to cover up and legitimize his adultery. So, the question is can a person who has "accepted Jesus" do "whatever they want" and not lose their salvation.

Well, first of all, I would never use the phrase "accept Jesus." I think it highly irreverent. But, I understand the gist of what you mean.

Secondly, do you suppose that if the day after David committed the state murder of Uriah to cover up his own adultery he had died that the man after God's own heart would have wound up in hell? Do you think that it is the height of Divine hyprocrisy to make such a vile disgusting sinner a Christ figure?

Or, do you suppose that, after all, salvation is really 100% the Divine mercy and grace of God for sinners who deserve nothing but to experience the wrath of God? Would you want to trust that your salvation is 99% grace and 1% what man (insert whatever man does or says to be saved).

As for me and my house....

When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh may I then in Him be found.
Dressed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne.

On Christ the solid Rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand;
All other ground is sinking sand.


In the service of the Lord,
Christian.


49 posted on 04/01/2005 2:29:57 PM PST by thePilgrim (Serue the Lord in feare, and reioyce in trembling.)
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