Justification is by Grace Alone

c.1558 | John Calvin

[Frumanchu]

Justification is by Grace Alone

John Calvin

 

We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Gal. 2:15-16).

Thus far, we have expounded why Paul, addressing the subject of the ceremonies, types and shadows which were practised before the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, reaches the general conclusion that a man cannot be justified or acceptable in God’s sight unless he observes the whole law. Now, at first, we might consider these things to be two separate issues; however, as we have been saying, Paul has to draw us back to basics in order to expose the folly of believing that we can obtain favour in God’s eyes through our own merit. Now, we have already discussed the reason why Paul adds the word ‘law’. For however much it may be commonly held that a good man can earn favour and acceptance with God, men are very seriously mistaken in such matters. Indeed, whatever we may have done, we cannot Win God’s favour, because he deserves the very best of all that is in our power. There is, therefore, no merit possible on our part (if, indeed, we may call it that), unless we fulfil the terms of the covenant he made with us, when he said that whosoever keeps the law shall obtain life and salvation (Lev. 18:5). When God uttered these words, he was prepared to accept our total obedience as worthy of salvation, but this does not, in fact, imply that we can, therefore, merit favour, for none of us have done our duty (as we shall see hereafter). Thus, the promise would have been forfeited, or at least without effect in that it would never apply to anyone, had not God sent the remedy — that is to say, unless, despite our unrighteousness, he forgave our sins, and accepted us as righteous. When Paul says that we cannot be justified by the works of the law, he means that if we claim to merit grace and salvation because God has promised that those who observe the law will be accounted as righteous, we are completely mistaken; for no one keeps the law perfectly. We must realise that we all stand guilty before God and have the sentence of condemnation hanging over our heads.

In order to express this fact more clearly, Paul draws a comparison between the Jews and the Gentiles. He says that even though they were ‘Jews by nature and not sinners of the Gentiles’ they realised that they could only be acceptable to God by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. For, although all men have fallen in Adam and therefore have no individual merit, it appeared that the Jews had a special privilege, in as much as God had adopted them as his own children and called them his servants. Yet, this is where the Jews went wrong. For when the Scriptures speak of ‘the uncircumcision’, they refer to the pollution which indwells us from Adam, and places us all under condemnation from our mother’s womb. But the Jews believed that God had freed them from this curse upon mankind and therefore they boasted. Whilst it is true that great honour was conferred upon them, which they should have valued above all earthly good — for God had chosen them to be his people and his inheritance — yet they ought to have humbly acknowledged that in their own selves they were unworthy. Indeed, we also are used to adopting such a presumptuous attitude when we experience the grace of God; likewise the Jews, for the most part, wrongly believed they were superior to everyone else. They thought God had found something about them that made him prefer them to those he had rejected. This arrogance brought with it wicked ingratitude, for they did not attribute to God all the good things they had received from his hand, but were puffed up with pride, as if God thought they were better or more worthy of eternal salvation than the Gentiles.

To extinguish all such presumption, Paul begins his argument thus: ‘we who are Jews by nature . . .’ It appears that he is saying, ‘Yes, it is true that we have been shown greater grace than the Gentiles, whom God did not accept into his church’. But when he speaks like this he does not, in fact, intend to give the Jews occasion for pride; rather, he is spreading before them the things they have freely received from God to teach them that they have no grounds for boasting. In the Epistle to the Romans, Paul makes two statements which at first sight seem contradictory, yet which are in perfect harmony. On the one hand he asks, ‘Do we not have more privileges than the Gentiles?’, and he answers, ‘Yes. For we were chosen to be his people; he gave us circumcision as a sign and seal that we are his children; he made a covenant with us; he promised to send us the Redeemer of the world. Thus, if we consider the mercies that God has showered upon us, we have been blessed indeed, and exalted far above all other peoples.’ Here Paul magnifies the goodness of God towards them (Rom. 3:1-2). However, later he asks the same question (What advantage have the Jews?), but answers, ‘None at all’ (Rom. 3:9-10). ‘For we are all under God’s curse. If the Gentiles are to be condemned, then we are to be condemned twice as much, for they have the excuse of ignorance. Nevertheless, they cannot escape God, but will perish although they have never had any instruction or knowledge of doctrine. It follows, then, that we will be condemned by the law, because God has taught us and yet we have not stopped sinning or transgressing his righteous laws, so that now we are plunged into greater and deeper condemnation than even Gentiles and unbelievers’, he says. Thus, the Jews were distinct from the Gentiles — not because they were more worthy or more righteous, but simply because God chose them out of his free bounty.

In the same way, the children born to believers are no better than the children of other Gentiles or even of Turks when it comes to their nature. For we are all part of a corrupt and accursed mass whom God has condemned, so that none of us may exalt ourselves and think ourselves of more worth than our friends. However, Paul declares that our children are sanctified, that they are not stained in the same way as those born to unbelievers or pagans (1 Cor. 7:14). It would seem that there are some contradictions here. Yet the whole hangs together very well, because, as for our natures, we are all tainted and corrupted, with only one exception [Christ]. Yet there is such a thing as a supernatural gift, that is, a privilege that God confers in order that the children of believers are dedicated to him, and he recognises and accepts them as his own. This is why the children of the church today are regarded as the people of God and amongst the number of the elect, just as under the law the Jews were separated from the rest of the world. This explains why Paul says, ‘We are Jews and not sinners of the Gentiles’. By ‘sinners’, he means those who continue in their filth and have not been washed by the grace of God. In deed, circumcision itself was a sign and a testimony to the fact that God accepted the family of Abraham and the race that descended from him as his own familiar and special people. In old times, this is what distinguished the Jews from unbelievers; for, although they were of equal status as children of Adam, yet God had chosen some and left others as strangers to his family. If we ask why this should be, the answer can only be purely because of God’s grace, since the Jews themselves were not outstanding in any way.
 

Let us now follow the argument that Paul is constructing here. He says, ‘Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.’ In saying this, Paul demonstrates that whatever grace they had received from God, they were not at liberty to trust in man or in themselves as if they deserved this from God. No, rather, they had to seek refuge in his free bounty, recognising that salvation is in Jesus Christ alone, who came to rescue from perdition those who were already lost. This is confirmed in that other passage, where it says that he ‘came and preached peace to you which were afar off and to them that were nigh’ (Eph. 2:17). Jesus Christ is that peace, for it is through him that God can love us and receive us in mercy. This is not only true for those who were previously far away like the Gentiles, but also for the children of Abraham, despite the dignity and nobility they already possessed (for this was not theirs by nature). Paul says that the Jews who had been converted to Christianity knew that they could not be justified by the works of the law, but only by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and he makes a comparison between the two in order to show that we cannot be justified by grace unless we actually renounce all personal merit.

This is well worthy of our attention. For indeed, even the Papists profess to be justified by faith, but this is only half of the truth and it is the rest of the picture which spoils the whole. Sure enough, they are persuaded of the fact that a man cannot be accounted righteous before God unless Jesus is the Mediator and unless that person rests upon him for salvation. The Papists know this only too well, and yet they so often say, ‘We are justified by faith but not by faith alone.’ This is the point with which they take issue, and this is the principal matter upon which we differ. Paul, however, shows their folly when he says, ‘but by faith’, for this expression implies that all that men bring to God to please him is rejected. The door is, therefore, tight shut to all merit, for Paul declares that the only way to come to God is through faith. We will soon see more clearly why Paul draws a comparison with the law as if here are two opposites. The law presupposes that if we fulfil what God requires of us we will be found good servants and he will give us the reward he has promised; faith, on the other hand, presupposes that we are poor, lost, condemned souls and that we are to find in Jesus Christ what we so desperately need.

Take this as an example: there are two men seeking food and shelter. One has money and wishes to be treated in accordance with his means. They both ask for something to eat, but the second man is poor and does not have a penny, so he begs for alms. They both have something in common, for they both seek food, but the first has money with which to satisfy his host. Thus, after eating and drinking well and being courteously entertained, the host, for his part, will be happy to receive his payment, no longer thinking that his guest is in any way indebted to him. Why? Well, he has been satisfied and has even gained from it. But the life of the poor man who asks for alms depends upon the one who can provide him with food and shelter, for he can give him nothing in return. In the same way, if we seek to be justified by the law we must deserve that justification; for then God will receive from us and we from him in a reciprocal manner. Is such a thing possible? Not at all, as we shall examine in more detail later. We must, therefore, conclude that we cannot obtain righteousness by the law, and that if we believe we can make God our debtor, we will only provoke his wrath. The only option is to come as poor beggars, that we may be justified by faith. Not as if faith were a virtue proceeding from us, but we must come humbly, confessing that we cannot obtain salvation except as a free gift. This, then, is why the law is put in opposition to faith. Paul is showing us that all who claim to be acceptable to God by their merits are turning their back upon the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. We shall study this at greater length hereafter.

A man may raise this objection: the law was given by God, so therefore it cannot be placed in opposition to faith, which also proceeds from God. The answer to this is simple. God made both the day and the night, water and fire, cold and heat. Surely, the day is not in opposition to the night, but rather God in his goodness and wisdom has arranged that they appear in a suitable order; man has the brightness of the sun in which to do his work by day, and by night the sun hides itself away so that man may take his rest. Therefore, although day differs from night, there is no disharmony between them. The same applies to fire and water. Every created thing has its function — and fire and water complement each other very well; however, if we were to mix them together, then they would indeed clash! This is true of the law and the gospel. Those who believe that we are justified by the law as well as the gospel are confusing everything; it is as if they are crashing heaven and earth together! In short, it would be easier to mix fire and water than to say this: that we can merit a measure of the grace of God and yet also need the aid of the Lord Jesus Christ. If we consider what the law is and why it was given, we will discover that there is no discrepancy with the gospel, nor with faith, but that there is perfect harmony between them. This objection is thus dealt with. If we say that both faith and the law proceed from God, we are right; but we must give some thought (as we will do shortly) to the reason why God originally instituted them both.
 

Let us return to Paul’s words — he says that we can only be justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. When he speaks of justification, he means being accounted righteous in the sight of God. This expression needs to be understood because it is dealing with the whole subject of how we are saved. We would be miserable creatures indeed if, having lived a long life in this world, someone were to ask us the way of salvation and we did not know how to respond! Many fools have feasted on the bread of God without knowing how to be acceptable to him. This is why we ought to be all the more attentive to what Paul is telling us here. He says that we are justified. How? Are we already righteous — are we blameless? Not at all, but God accepts us. The word ‘justification’ points us to that favour which God bestows upon us when we become his children and he our Father. You may ask, why do the Scriptures use the word ‘justify’ when it seems so inappropriate? We could just as well say that God loves us, that he takes pity on us, that he desires to be our Father and Saviour — why not use these expressions instead of speaking of justification? The Scriptures do not refer to it without good reason.

If we analyse salvation in its most basic sense, we will say that we are saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. However, this does not imply knowledge of our miserable condition by nature or of the remedy that we need to apply. For in order to put our trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, we must acknowledge that by the sin of Adam, as well as by our own iniquities, we are altogether lost. We ought to have already discovered this for ourselves. We will never understand that our sins condemn us in God’s sight, unless we know that we need to be put right with him. In other words, we will not be aware of the righteousness of God if we simply say, ‘We are saved by grace and by faith.’ For God cannot once deny himself, since he embodies sovereign justice; he is all purity and perfection and, therefore, he detests what is evil. Yet we are totally corrupt and there is only wickedness in us; it follows, therefore, that God must hate us. However, if he hates us, woe unto us, for we are damned. This is why we need to be justified before we can be pleasing to God. This means we must be cleansed from our sins and transgressions; otherwise, we could never appreciate God’s mercy (as I have said). If we acknowledge that we are sinners, we will realise that God hates sin, and yet though he hates it he has nevertheless provided a way to save us — by forgiving our sins, and by cleansing and purging us from them through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, who gives us spiritual cleansing. God washes us clean in order that he might receive us, so that sharing in his love, we may be assured of our salvation. This is why the Scriptures use the word ‘justification’.

Papists may debate over its meaning. ‘What!’, they say, ‘Justified by faith? Faith does not make a person perfect — how, then, can it justify us?’ They do not realise that the justification spoken of in the Scriptures refers to God covering our sins (as I have been saying) and, by virtue of his sufferings and death, cancelling them in and through the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Whatever others may say, it is written that we are accounted righteous in God’s sight when he remits and pardons our sins. In fact, Paul speaks of this in the fourth chapter to the Romans, where he says: ‘Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered’ (Rom. 4:6-7; Psa. 32:1). Again, in another passage he says, ‘For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin’; (this means that he received all the condemnation due to us for our sins), ‘that we might be made the righteousness of God in him’ (2 Cor. 5:21). Thus, we, being joined and united to his person and to his body, are accounted righteous, because his obedience was so perfect that it was sufficient to cleanse and remove our sins. We have now dealt with the meaning of the term ‘justification’.
 

Turning our attention to the expression ‘faith’, Paul states here that they have ‘believed’ in Jesus Christ. If we were to ask a fool what he considers faith to be, he might well say ‘belief, but he clearly would not understand what either word means. Are we happy to be as ignorant as such fools? Let us firstly point out that the Lord Jesus is the object of both our faith and our belief. Is salvation through faith? Yes, if we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Let us consider for a moment why the Lord Jesus Christ is set before us as the one in whom we must rest all our faith. It is simply because we find in him all we need for our justification. We have already said that we are accounted righteous in God’s sight when he has forgiven our sins and no longer calls them into account. And how does this happen, if not by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ which was shed for our cleansing? By his sufferings and death, he made satisfaction for our sins and appeased the wrath of God against us. We must seek no further means of payment, other than the sacrifice made by God’s only Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. It is he who is called God’s beloved Son (Matt. 3:17), so that we might be beloved in him; he is called the Righteous One (Isa. 53:11), so that we may partake of his righteousness; and he is called the Holy One (Luke 1:35), so that we may be sanctified in him. This is why our attention is drawn to the Lord Jesus Christ when we consider ‘faith’.

How carefully, therefore, must we heed the words of Paul here which tell us that if we do not look to Jesus Christ, we cannot know what faith really is. Without him, we cannot know remission of sins, how to approach God, how to put our trust in him, or to call upon him. Neither will we know what it is to have peace of conscience, or the hope of eternal life. All this is beyond our reach until we are introduced to Jesus Christ and until we have looked to him and cast ourselves upon him. This kind of faith brings grace: when we recognise that we are wretched creatures, and abominable in God’s sight, seeking the remedy in the Lord Jesus Christ. We must accept that he offered himself for us in order to redeem us from the curse under which we lived, and that he has washed us in his blood. By his obedience, he has cancelled all our transgressions so that we can be assured that God accepts and receives us as his children. This is how we can understand this passage.
 

Having stated that he, and all the Jews that had been converted to Christianity had been saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul adds the following: ‘for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified’. We have heard this before in application to those of his own nation, but here he proclaims it in a more general sense to the whole world. When he says, ‘no flesh’, he primarily implies that there is no difference between the Jews and the Gentiles when it comes to the way of salvation. Although the Jews had been circumcised, chosen as God’s inheritance and sanctified by him, nevertheless, they could have no hope of salvation except through God’s pure grace alone. See how they are set at the same level as the Gentiles, having the same status. Paul seeks to expel all pride that men may have about their own virtues. Indeed, many of us know ourselves to be so depraved that we cannot possibly attribute any honour to ourselves, as if we should deserve anything at God’s hand. Those who are drunk or debauched or who have given themselves over to all kinds of evil feel too ashamed to elevate themselves or to boast that they can persuade God to save them by their merits or good works. In fact, they hide themselves even from other people because they are ashamed of their baseness. But the bigoted, who make a show of their ‘holiness’ before men, are so hardened that they deceive themselves into thinking they deserve paradise — as if God were indebted to them! These hypocrites, though utterly depraved and full of ambition, avarice, wickedness and such like things, because of all their manipulations and pretences, believe that God sees nothing wrong with their corrupt practices and even persuade themselves that he will accept them because of their merits! Those who regularly attend Mass, running from the alehouse to the chapel, buying pardons and other such things, observing fasts and feast days — they are puffed up with vain pride and believe that God owes them something. By saying ‘no flesh’, Paul declares that it is pointless to separate ourselves from one another here below, as if one is just and the other unjust. We must all humble ourselves and judge ourselves, knowing that all our virtues are but filthy rags in God’s sight, even the very best that we can do. For even if a man were perfectly righteous in our estimation, because he never harmed anyone, or because he could resist all kinds of evil and was chaste and sober — in short, though he were reputed to be an angel — yet within, there would be nothing but corruption. How is this possible? Well, we must never judge by the appearance, for all that glitters (as the proverb says) is not gold. We cannot judge what is sin or virtue without first looking within. For if a man does not ascribe to God what is rightfully his, he is not robbing men of their honour, but God. Thus, however much men might praise and commend him, he is full of pride and ambition, and nothing will humble him except coming to know the Lord Jesus Christ.

So then, even those who make a good outward show of religion shall be condemned before God. Hence, Paul intends to stop men from trusting in their own merits. But there is yet more. For when he says, ‘no flesh’, he not only refers to men whom God has given over, who have not been renewed by his Holy Spirit, but he also includes believers. For although God’s Spirit dwells within us after he has led us to a knowledge of the gospel and grafted us into the body of the Lord Jesus Christ — although, I say, God’s Spirit dwells within us, we are all included in this word ‘flesh’ because of what we are by nature. Thus, when Paul declares here that ‘no flesh shall be justified’, he means that unbelievers are condemned in Adam and remain condemned, and that believers, because they will always be imperfect and have many spots and blemishes, are condemned as much as the others. Indeed, this condemnation is a general one, for whoever seeks to be justified by the works of the law will always find himself guilty — yes, even the holiest person that ever existed. Let us take Abraham as an example of perfection, or David, who abounded in all virtues, or Noah, Job, and Daniel, whom Ezekiel names as three righteous men (Ezek. 14:14). They all fall into the same category as men who could only be justified in God’s sight through grace.

Now then, I ask you all, where do we stand? Those who say that they will be justified by their merits, or ‘meritorious works’ as they call them, have they not been driven to excessive pride by the devil? For who can match David, or Noah, or Abraham, or Daniel? Surely, even those who have done well in God’s school, and who are fired by true zeal in giving themselves totally to God, are convinced that they are still far from having reached the standard set by David, or even Noah or Daniel! Knowing this, therefore, we can see that the Holy Spirit is here casting down those who exalt themselves overmuch, to convince us that we have not the merest drop of righteousness, so that we seek all that pertains to our salvation in the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Now we understand what the statement implies when it says that ‘no flesh shall be justified’. It is as if Paul were saying that, when it comes to our nature, we are only evil within, despite what appears to be the case outwardly. We may be greatly praised and respected by the world; we may be surrounded by vain flattery; but until God works in us to change us, we are full of filth. Indeed, all the virtues that men exalt are nothing short of vices that will lead men to destruction and plunge them into hell. For even those who have been renewed by the grace of God, and who have learnt to obey him by doing the things which God loves and cherishes, even they can bring nothing to God that can settle their accounts with him. They will always be in debt because all the good gifts they have proceed from God; also, even such men are corrupt through sin and infirmity. Thus, we must be stripped of all trust in our own righteousness. For, from the greatest to the least of us, we are all condemned. If we seek justification by the law, we are greatly deceived — we will never find it.

Now we can understand much more clearly the truth of what I have been saying concerning the Lord Jesus Christ as a refuge for those who are convinced of their spiritual need. This means that the only real preparation for belief in Jesus Christ is to be touched with a real, vivid sense and awareness of our sins. This is why Christ said: ‘Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest . . . and ye shall find rest unto your souls’ (Matt. 11:28-29). Elsewhere, the Scripture clearly says that he was sent ‘to preach good tidings unto the meek.. . to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound’ (Isa. 61:1). Therefore, those who take pleasure in their sins will never come to the Lord Jesus Christ. They may boast that they have faith, for many mockers of God profane this word, holy as it is. Everyone wishes to be thought of as a Christian, and no matter how depraved they are, they will say that they believe as much as any other. But when a man speaks in this manner, it is evidence enough that he has not one drop of faith. When true believers say, ‘I believe’, they express it in great weakness, knowing that had not God taken pity on them, even the little they had would have been taken from them. Those who loudly boast that they have complete faith are nothing but dogs and swine, who have never once tasted true religion nor the fear of God. The term ‘faith’ will always be shamefully defiled by these dogs, who do nothing other than mock God. They cannot discern between good and evil, and are so foolish as to wallow in their own sins. Take a drunkard, for example, who is past shame; after drinking to excess, he longs to remain in his intoxicated state. Then there are the whoremongers, perjurers, blasphemers, and suchlike — all of whom claim to have faith; but for all that, it is certain that they are not ready to meet the Lord Jesus Christ. Why not? Because they do not realise that they can only be justified by grace. Let us remember, however, that to be thoroughly persuaded that we cannot be justified by the law, we must set God before us on his judgment throne and summon ourselves before him every morning and evening, knowing that we must give an account of our whole lives. Also, we must realise that we would be sent to the pit a hundred thousand times if God did not pity us and raise us up in his infinite mercy Then we will know that we cannot be justified by the law, for we are all under condemnation every time we compare ourselves with God. We need to have such fear, that we cannot find rest until the Lord Jesus Christ has saved us. See, therefore, how good it is for us to be heavy laden, that is to say, to hate our sins and to be in such anguish over them that we feel surrounded by the pains of death, so that we seek God in order that he might ease us of our burden. We must, however, seek him in the knowledge that we cannot obtain salvation, full or in part, unless it is granted to us as a gift. Paul is not saying that we may find something of what we lack in Jesus Christ, and supply the rest ourselves. He says we cannot be counted righteous through our own merits, or works, but only through faith.

Let us, therefore, understand that there is no salvation whatsoever outside of Jesus Christ, for he is the beginning and the end of faith, and he is all in all. Let us continue in humility, knowing that we can only bring condemnation upon ourselves; therefore, we need to find all that pertains to salvation in the pure and free mercy of God. We must be able to say that we are saved through faith. God the Father has appointed his Son the Lord Jesus Christ that he might be both the author and finisher of our salvation. We are to deny ourselves and give ourselves to him wholly and completely, that all the praise might belong to him.

Now let us fall before the majesty of our great God, acknowledging our sins, and asking that he would make us increasingly aware of them, that we may hate them more and more, and grow in repentance (a grace that we need to exercise all our lives). May we learn so to magnify his grace, as it is shown to us in the Lord Jesus Christ, that we might be completely taken up with it; and may we not only do so with our lips, but place our entire trust in him. May we grow in that trust until we are gathered up into our eternal home, where we shall receive faith’s reward. May he not only grant this grace to us, but to all peoples, etc.

[RnMomof7]

Do you respect me? If so, you do not show it by your insistence on calling something that I am purely basing on Scripture "your gospel". I have done my best by "speaking the thruth in love"(Ephesians 4:15). I wish you the best in your walk with Christ, but I can't continue discussions with you because of your lack of respect of my beliefs. God bless.

I respect truth and those that hold the truth without compromise.

The Church of Christ is considered outside professing Protestantism. The fact is you do not believe that any of the posters here except other COC are saved.

I do not know if you are saved or not, but I do not disregard the possibility off hand.

I believe you teach a false gospel, I am sorry if that is offensive to you but sometimes the truth is offensive.

I have spent time showing you the error and you have decided to say that is a "lack of love" . To me there is no greater love than a proper presentation of the Gospel .

[Fiat volvntas tva]

I have spent time showing you the error and you have decided to say that is a "lack of love" . To me there is no greater love than a proper presentation of the Gospel .

Amen!

When Jesus soundly, at times rather sarcastically and firmly corrected the religious leaders of His time of earthly incarnation, did He do so in love?

I would submit that He did. Love for the Truth, love for those in error knowing those errors are fatal and love for those who could be deceived by errors, and did so at tremendous risk.

I also submit that the correction of jkl's errors are done in love for the very same reasons, and at the risk of being called mean, hateful and other pejoratives.

[Fiat volvntas tva]

If you don't mind, I have a couple more queries for you to ponder concerning the idea that fallen man has a natural ability to submit to Christ.

1. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit plays any role in the sinner coming to faith in Christ?

2. Do you believe that, apart from any supernatural work of the Holy Spirit, the sinner, by nature, desires to come to Christ?

Thank you in advance for your response.

[thePilgrim]

***The Holy Spirit changes people through the Word of God. I do believe that God can bring people in contact with one another in order that one might hear the Gospel. It is through the Word of God that people's lives are changed.***

How is it that God can manipulate situations so that people are brought together, which is in interferrence with the free lives of people, but that God cannot do anything else because it violates man's free will? It does seem to be talking about both sides of the mouth to say that God can violate man's free will in one thing but not in another. It does seem mighty convenient.

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.

[jkl1122]

The example I gave about the driver's license matches Mark 16:16, not Ephesians 2:8. Do you believe that someone who is 16 can get a driver's license without taking the driver's test?

[jkl1122]

Protestantism is not found in the Bible. I am not a Protestant, I am a Christian. You have posted nothing that proves baptism is not essential for salvation. Being "saved by grace, through faith" does not have to exclude baptism, and in fact it does not. For that to be the case, faith in the Bible has to be something that excludes obedience. This is not the case, and you have yet to prove that it is.

[jkl1122]

I am still waiting for someone to explain how Jesus' statement in Mark 16:16 does not mean what it clearly says. Would you like to answer that question for me?

[Colin MacTavish]

***I have lots of Reformed Baptist brethren and don't know a single one who would agree that fallen man is a "free moral agent", no, not one. :-)***

Well, then none of them can be a good Southern Baptist.

From our Baptist Faith & Message:

V. God's Purpose of Grace

Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the FREE AGENCY OF MAN, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility.

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

Genesis 12:1-3; Exodus 19:5-8; 1 Samuel 8:4-7,19-22; Isaiah 5:1-7; Jeremiah 31:31ff.; Matthew 16:18-19; 21:28-45; 24:22,31; 25:34; Luke 1:68-79; 2:29-32; 19:41-44; 24:44-48; John 1:12-14; 3:16; 5:24; 6:44-45,65; 10:27-29; 15:16; 17:6,12,17-18; Acts 20:32; Romans 5:9-10; 8:28-39; 10:12-15; 11:5-7,26-36; 1 Corinthians 1:1-2; 15:24-28; Ephesians 1:4-23; 2:1-10; 3:1-11; Colossians 1:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 1:12; 2:10,19; Hebrews 11:39–12:2; James 1:12; 1 Peter 1:2-5,13; 2:4-10; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:19; 3:2.

***Of course being in bondage has bearing on the idea of "free moral agency".***

Nope. As you can see from the SBC Faith & Message, all true Southern Baptists believe in the free agency of man, including all of the SBC Calvinists. Either the Calvinists are really confused about the Baptist Faith & Message or they really don't believe in man's moral depravity.

Take your pick.

***By the way, Psalm 51 is a psalm of confession and repentence of a regenerated man who confessing his sin to restore communion with God that had been broken due to his sin, not a prayer for salvation itself.***

This does seem to contradict your earlier statement: "Paul describes two states, either a slave to the sin nature, with it's dominion over you, or a slave to Christ." So, am I to believe that David was a slave to the LORD, but still seeming to be a slave to his sin nature?

Also, you interpretation of Romans 3 is wrong too. Obviously, there are some who seek after God unless you want to admit that there are none even among the saved who seek after God.

Colin.

[Colin MacTavish]

***The Bible takes for granted that we should pray because it teaches that God can save people and deliver them from their rebellion. Are you claiming that God has no such right?***

No, never made that claim.

***If all fallen men already naturally have the moral ability to believe, and God can do nothing more, as you are saying, then what use is there in praying?***

No, I never said that God could do nothing or nothing more. It does appear that he can do quite a bit, such as reveal himself like he did with Paul.

***If God cannot actually go in a change their hearts' disposition, then what are you, in fact, praying for?***

Well, like I said, for starters, for God to reveal himself to them. You can also pray that God send his servants to to preach the gospel to them.

Do you not ask God to send people to those who are lost? Or, do you just ask God to zap them.

Colin.

[Fiat volvntas tva]

Well, like I said, for starters, for God to reveal himself to them.

God has already revealed Himself to them. Please see Romans 2:

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

So, since God has already revealed Himself, even His eternal Godhead, why don't they believe?

You can also pray that God send his servants to to preach the gospel to them.

God does that regularly as well, yet they don't believe. Why not?

[Fiat volvntas tva]

This does seem to contradict your earlier statement: "Paul describes two states, either a slave to the sin nature, with it's dominion over you, or a slave to Christ." So, am I to believe that David was a slave to the LORD, but still seeming to be a slave to his sin nature?
So, you believe David to have been unregenerate when he penned Psalm 51?

Are you not familiar with Romans 7:

14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

So, is Paul regenerate or unregnerate when saying that?

Also, you interpretation of Romans 3 is wrong too. Obviously, there are some who seek after God unless you want to admit that there are none even among the saved who seek after God.

Romans 3 is speaking of the unregenerate man in his natural state of being in rebellion, and not the regenerate. My interpretation is correct.

[Fiat volvntas tva]

Do you not ask God to send people to those who are lost? Or, do you just ask God to zap them.

I pray that God do what He promised in Ezeliel 36:

26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

That's not God sitting around waiting for sinful men to seek Him or to "make a decision" for Christ, that is God making a radical change through radical heart tranplantion.

[Colin MacTavish]

***So, since God has already revealed Himself, even His eternal Godhead, why don't they believe?***

In verse 21, it clearly says that "they knew God." So, it does seem as if in the verses you mention (Romans 1, not 2) that in some manner they believed in God.

***God does that regularly as well, yet they don't believe. Why not?***

Funny that you say that. I've never had anybody come up to me and preach the gospel. I've talked to other people who do believe when they hear the gospel. I've talked to even other people who don't believe the first time, but the second or the third.

Paul was clearly a believer in God, yet the Lord chose to reveal himself to Paul and make him a true believer. Perhaps God is simply waiting for the right time to reveal himself in a way meaningful to salvation.

I guess in your theology, only a Calvinist has the right to pray for someone's salvation.

Like I said, aparently since God in your opinion has already revealed himself to everyone and has already sent people to preach the gospel to them, that you should simply pray for God to zap people and save them no matter what they believe or confess or hear. Do I have that right? It does seem to make sense. You can't pray for God to reveal himself because you tell me he already has. That would mean you think that God didn't do a good enough job the first time. And, since you think they already have missionaries, God doesn't need to send more. So, you can't pray for that. All you seem to be able to pray for is a Holy zap.

Colin.

[Fiat volvntas tva]

In verse 21, it clearly says that "they knew God." So, it does seem as if in the verses you mention (Romans 1, not 2) that in some manner they believed in God.

Having an intellectual assent does not equate to believing God, the demons believe in God, and tremble.

Funny that you say that. I've never had anybody come up to me and preach the gospel.

Really? What do you consider to be "preaching the gospel"?

Btw, you have skipped over a few queries, any reason for that?

[Fiat volvntas tva]

What does this mean:

Ezekiel 36:

26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

[visually_augmented]

jkl: "I am still waiting for someone to explain how Jesus' statement in Mark 16:16 does not mean what it clearly says"

Here is the text of that passage (NKJV):

Mark 16:
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

So parsing v.16 semantically, you purport the following:
Believe + Baptism = Salvation.

(Regrettably, in earlier posts, you have even added stipulations to this equation that are not present in this verse. JKL: "In order for a person to be saved, according to the Bible, they must believe, REPENT, CONFESS, and be baptized" - emphasis mine)

But logically, someone could also claim (and I think it has been in an earlier post) that:
Believe = Salvation
where Baptism is not a necessity for salvation, but a product of said salvation.
As a matter of fact, the statement "believe and you shall be saved" (without mention of baptism) is the more prevalent of those found in scripture. At this time I will not provide a tally as proof, but I shall if you press the issue.

Even the following half of v.16 implies that unbelief is enough to disqualify the candidate - it nowhere mentions that lack of baptism is cause for disqualification. As a matter of fact, I would be impressed if you could provide scripture that distinctly states that lack of baptism will negate salvation. I can certainly show MANY cases where disbelief negates salvation.

But more to the point, even belief (which is an action/reponse of man) is not the root of salvation hence much of the above argument is secondary. The only way any of us are truly saved is through rebirth imposed upon us by God which MUST precede belief, repentance, confession and baptism. In essence, you have completely missed the point of Mark 16:16 because belief and baptism are both results of our election, calling and regeneration (all actions of our gracious Heavenly Father).

And if God calls us, we cannot resist - any other belief makes God out to be impotent or ineffectual. God does not call and wait to see how man will respond. God only calls those whom he has elected and WILL finish a work that he has begun:

Phil 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

[jkl1122]

If you take New Testament teaching as a whole, belief, repentance, confession, and baptism are all necessary for salvation. My point in Mark 16:16 is that baptism is placed before salvation by Jesus Christ. That doesn't exclude obedience to the other commands.

There are Scriptures that explicitly mention belief, but not repentance, confession, and baptism. Does that mean belief is all that is necessary? No. There are those that explicitly mention confession, but not belief, repentance, and baptism. Does that mean that confession is all that is necessary? No. There are those that explicitly mention repentance, but not belief, confession, and baptism. Does that mean that repentance is all that is necessary? No.

Christ places belief and baptism before salvation. The fact that disbelief is all that is necessary for not being saved is a matter of common sense. If someone doesn't believe, they have no reason to repent of their sins, confess Christ, or be baptized into His death.

The bottom line is this: Are the words of Christ enough for you to believe something? If so, then why do you not believe that baptism is before salvation, when Christ made that statement Himself?

[visually_augmented]

jkl: "The bottom line is this: Are the words of Christ enough for you to believe something? If so, then why do you not believe that baptism is before salvation, when Christ made that statement Himself?"


Christ also said:

John 3:
"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

John 6:65
"Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

John 10:27-29
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."

None of the actions above can be carried out by a man, all are things that God does for an individual (rebirth, granted to him by My Father, who has given them to Me).

We must be careful to heed all the words of Christ, not just those that argue your point. As a matter of fact, you should heed the Bible in its entirety. You continue to overlook the means of salvation for all the Old Testament saints (none where baptized). Salvation is a gift - an unmerited gift. Belief, repentance, confession, and baptism are all things we must do - but all are done out of obedience to a God who does a great work in us first.

Also, I'm still waiting for the scripture that says those who believe and are not baptized are condemned...

[jkl1122]

"Also, I'm still waiting for the scripture that says those who believe and are not baptized are condemned..."

That verse is not needed, since the Bible clearly teaches that if you don't believe, you are already condemned(John 3:18,Mark 16:16). Since you agree that taking Scripture as a whole is imporant, why do you want to contradict a direct statement of Christ?

The scriptures you listed do not contradict Mark 16:16, they complement that Scripture. In John 3, being "born again" is equated to being "born of water and of the Spirit". The water here is referring to baptism. As for John 6, I agree that salvation has been granted by God. However, that does not exclude obedience. In John 10, are you overlooking the phrase "and they follow me"? Jesus clearly lists obedience as required for gaining eternal life.

[wallcrawlr]

Your pretty good at giving suggestions: Your previous post had one and now this one too:

I suggest that you...

I would suggest that, since you are unable to even tell us what the doctrine of "Sola Fide" is, you

Instead of coming across as arogant and preachy, if you know it so well then put it in your own words for discussion. Any "true" Protestant would know that.

Any "true" Protestant would attempt to help others learn...