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To: Rokke
"he who is not with the Pope is not with God, and who desires to be with God must be with the Pope."

As I stated before the apparent contradiction in the statement is of your own construct. As per Apostolic succession, the Pope is the head of the Church Christ founded. Salvation is through Christ -not conceptually BUT in reality by obediently following ALL His teachings which are both divinely inspired written and contained in Apostolic Tradition handed down Apostle to Apostle within the deposit of Faith -the Church He founded.

I do not say it is impossible to gain eternal life through Christ if outside of His Church and not aware of the full Truth maintained by and within His Church and His Apostles; however, to be in His Church is to be with His Apostle is to be with Him figuratively speaking -as such, more assured of understanding and gaining understanding of His teachings -subsequently, better predisposed and prepared to be obedient and possibly gain eternal life through Christ...

If you can understand Christian's relationships to other Apostles as compared to Christ you will understand why it is absurd to think Catholic's consider salvation through our Pope -this continued mischaracterization is errant thinking at best and Catholic bashing ar worst.

Wiser men than me have done the same thing and come up with similar conclusions.

From my perspective -it is not wiser men you speak of -it is lost men or dissenting men...

106 posted on 01/21/2005 9:25:46 PM PST by DBeers
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To: DBeers
"As per Apostolic succession, the Pope is the head of the Church Christ founded."

Jesus Christ is the head of His Church. The Bible cannot be any clearer on that subject, and the Catholic church is in full agreement. But even if the Pope were the head of the church, it remains irrelevent with respect to being with God. Again, I quote Jesus Christ himself. He says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Only through Christ. Not the Pope. And while the church is Christ's body, we are brought into His body through the Sacrament of Baptism. Again, the Pope is not required.

"...it is absurd to think Catholic's consider salvation through our Pope -this continued mischaracterization is errant thinking at best and Catholic bashing ar worst."

And if you can show me were I said that even once, nevermind continually, I will apologize. But I have never said Catholics believe they will achieve salvation through the Pope. I know that isn't true. I have simply disagreed with the quote that opened this article, and I do not believe it accurately reflects the doctrine of the Catholic church. It would appear, on that point, you and I are in agreement.

109 posted on 01/21/2005 11:54:14 PM PST by Rokke
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