[DBeers]

Christ dispenses salvation, not the church burocracy.

I think you are confused in debating either or on something that does not occur. Salvation is not dispensed -salvation if obtained is obtained by grace -coming closer to God through Jesus Christ's teachings; not the concept of Jesus -the teachings of Jesus. So, how does one gain understanding in and obediently embrace these teachings -osmosis?

[derheimwill]

'Dispence' is not the very best word. My point, though, was that Christ, himself, personally saves us. The power to save lies in Him. The church is more of a mechanism, albeit a necessary one. To say that the Church, or the Sacraments, saves us is like saying that my car gets me where I'm going. We understand what is meant by those words but, they are imprecise.

If you want to continue this discussion, it'll have to wait. It's way past my bedtime:)
Good night and God bless!