The Shroud's Second Image: New evidence reopens debate about the controversial relic

Christianity Today ^ | 12/15/04 | Gordon Govier

[ex-Texan]

God laughs all the way through time (time is only an idea in the mind of God)!

[escapefromboston]

Is shroudie still around?

[mike182d]

I'm sure being caught in a fire in the middle ages had absolutely no affect on the carbon dating...

[ex-snook]

The onion keeps getting peeled.

[NYer]

Fact:  The bloodstains are from real human blood. Different scientists working independently conducted immunological, fluorescence and spectrographic tests, as well as Rh and ABO typing of blood antigens that prove it beyond any doubt. And several experts in forensic medicine and blood chemistry conclude that the stains were formed by real human bleeding from real wounds on a real human body that came into direct contact with the cloth. Many of the stains have the distinctive forensic signature of clotting with red corpuscles about the edge of the clot and a clear yellowish halo of serum.

There is wide agreement that the bloodstains are from a man laying on his back with his feet at one end of the 14-foot linen cloth. The cloth was brought up over the man’s head to cover his face and the entire length of his body down to his feet. Bloodstains on one part of the cloth indicate a serious wound to the chest. The patterns of these stains show that blood likely flowed from the chest area, down the side of a prone body and pooled near the lower back. Mingled with the large bloodstains in this area are stains from what pathologists believe are clear bodily fluid, perhaps pericardial fluid or fluid from the pleural sac or pleural cavity. All of these findings suggest that the man received a postmortem stabbing wound in the vicinity of the heart.

The Shroud of Turin Story - A Guide to the Facts

Catholic Ping - please freepmail me if you want on/off this list

[ZGuy]

Could someone please address the shroud and John 20: 3-7? Many believe the shroud is not authentic not due to scientific analysis, but because scripture says that His head was wrapped in a separate cloth :

3So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen.

Thanks

[netmilsmom]

>>Is shroudie still around?<<

Let's try a ping!

(I hope so!)

[Aquinasfan]

The Shroud never ceases to amaze.

Other miraculous phenomena:

Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano
Blood of St. Januarius
The Tilma of Guadalupe
Incorrupt bodies of the saints
Fatima
Shroud of Turin
Sudarium of Oviedo

[Aquinasfan]

scripture says that His head was wrapped in a separate cloth

That seems to be the Sudarium of Oviedo. Matching bloodstains and bloodtype.

Same bloodtype as the the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano too.

[escapefromboston]

I know they matched bloodtype (AB), but why not do a DNA test also?

[Serb5150]

Shroud ping.

[frog_jerk_2004]

scripture says that His head was wrapped in a separate cloth

Wasn't it common for crucified victims to have their faces covered, on the cross or scafold, with a cloth after their death for possibly religious reasons?

[NYer]

He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen.

I believe you are referring to the Sudarium. This cloth was placed about the man's head while he was still in a vertical position, presumably before he was removed from the cross. It was then removed before the Shroud was placed over the man's face.

One of the relics held by the cathedral in the town of Oviedo, in the north of Spain, is a piece of cloth measuring approximately 84 x 53 cm. There is no image on this cloth. Only stains are visible to the naked eye, although more is visible under the microscope. The remarkable thing about this cloth is that both tradition and scientific studies claim that the cloth was used to cover and clean the face of Jesus after the crucifixion.

The history of the sudarium is well documented, and much more straightforward than that of the Shroud. Most of the information comes from the twelfth century bishop of Oviedo, Pelagius (or Pelayo), whose historical works are the Book of the Testaments of Oviedo, and the Chronicon Regum Legionensium.

According to this history, the sudarium was in Palestine until shortly before the year 614, when Jerusalem was attacked and conquered by Chosroes II, who was king of Persia from 590 to 628. It was taken away to avoid destruction in the invasion, first to Alexandria by the presbyter Philip, then across the north of Africa when Chosroes conquered Alexandria in 616. The sudarium entered Spain at Cartagena, along with people who were fleeing from the Persians. The bishop of Ecija, Fulgentius, welcomed the refugees and the relics, and surrendered the chest, or ark, to Leandro, bishop of Seville. He took it to Seville, where it spent some years.

Hence, both cloths - the Sudarium and the Shroud - have survived since that glorious day when Christ rose from the dead.

[Aquinasfan]

I know they matched bloodtype (AB), but why not do a DNA test also?

Don't know. I'm guessing that it's because access to these sacred objects by scientists is severely limited.

[Aquinasfan]

Wasn't it common for crucified victims to have their faces covered, on the cross or scafold, with a cloth after their death for possibly religious reasons?

Don't know about the headcloth. I do know that the practice of laying the body of the deceased in one long linen cloth was a Jewish burial custom at the time of Christ.

[Pyro7480]

Could someone please address the shroud and John 20: 3-7? Many believe the shroud is not authentic not due to scientific analysis, but because scripture says that His head was wrapped in a separate cloth :

I'm thinking that the blood soaked through. Blood does that.

[ZGuy]

[lightbulb effect]

Thank you!

New insight -- The sudarium was wrapped around Jesus' head on the cross and then removed, set aside and left in the tomb when he was wrapped with the shroud during burial. Prior to this I had understood the passage to mean that Jesus had two separate wrappings while in the tomb, and that didn't fit with the shroud at all.

[redgolum]

I kind of hope the shourd is real, but can't be sure.

As for DNA tests, I heard (from someone on FR I think) that testing was being done. Quit frankly I hope not.

[NYer]

Wasn't it common for crucified victims to have their faces covered, on the cross or scafold, with a cloth after their death for possibly religious reasons?

How the sudarium was wrapped around the head

The experiments with the model head and the study of the stains also show that when the man died his head was tilted seventy degrees forward and twenty degrees to the right. This position further suggests that the man whose face the sudarium covered died crucified.

There are smaller bloodstains at the side of the main group. It would appear that the sudarium was pinned to the back of the dead man's head, and that these spots of blood were from small sharp objects, which would logically be the thorns that caused this type of injury all over Jesus' head.

The medical studies are not the only ones that have been carried out on the sudarium. Dr. Max Frei analysed pollen samples taken from the cloth, and found species typical of Oviedo, Toledo, North Africa and Jerusalem. This confirms the historical route described earlier. There was nothing relating the cloth to Constantinople, France, Italy or any other country in Europe.

An international congress was held in Oviedo in 1994, where various papers were presented about the sudarium. Dr. Frei's work with pollen was confirmed, and enlarged on. Species of pollen called "quercus caliprimus" were found, both of which are limited to the area of Palestine.

Residues of what is most probably myrrh and aloe have also been discovered, mentioned directly in the gospel of john, 19:39-40, "Nicodemus came as well...and he brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes...They took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen cloths with the spices, following the Jewish burial custom."

The stains were also studied from the point of view of anthropology. The conclusion was that the face that had been in contact with the sudarium had typically Jewish features, a prominent nose and pronounced cheekbones.

Finally, the very fact that the cloth was kept at all is a sign of its authenticity, as it has no artistic or monetary value at all. All the studies carried out so far point in one direction, with nothing to suggest the contrary the sudarium was used to cover the head of the dead body of Jesus of Nazareth from when he was taken down from the cross until he was buried.

3: Coincidence with the Shroud

The sudarium alone has revealed sufficient information to suggest that it was in contact with the face of Jesus after the crucifixion. However, the really fascinating evidence comes to light when this cloth is compared to the Shroud of Turin.

The first and most obvious coincidence is that the blood on both cloths belongs to the same group, namely AB.

The length of the nose through which the pleural oedema fluid came onto the sudarium has been calculated at eight centimetres, just over three inches. This is exactly the same length as the nose on the image of the Shroud.

If the face of the image on the Shroud is placed over the stains on the sudarium, perhaps the most obvious coincidence is the exact fit of the stains with the beard on the face. As the sudarium was used to clean the man's face, it appears that it was simply placed on the face to absorb all the blood, but not used in any kind of wiping movement.

A small stain is also visible proceeding from the right hand side of the man's mouth. This stain is hardly visible on the Shroud, but Dr. John Jackson, using the VP-8 and photo enhancements has confirmed its presence.

The thorn wounds on the nape of the neck also coincide perfectly with the bloodstains on the Shroud.

Source: The Sudarium of Oviedo