[StJacques]

". . .biologists' investigation of DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved"... [Flew] accepts Darwinian evolution but doubts it can explain the ultimate origins of life. . . ."

I do not accept the premise that any investigation of the "complexity" of DNA by biologists has established in any way "that intelligence must have been involved." In fact, those who are principally involved in the making of this argument are doing so from the perspective of mathematical probability rather than from scientific investigation because they are proposing that which cannot be disproved, namely; that complexity alone explains intelligent design. Explaining the origins of life is still a problem in evolutionary biology, and there has been progress in addressing it, but to say that it has failed and will not ever come up with an answer is false.

And none of what I have written denies a creator either, something in which I very much believe.

[StJacques]

". . . they are proposing that which cannot be disproved, namely; that complexity alone explains intelligent design. . . ."

Now that I think about it, I believe I got this backwards. I should have written:

". . . they are proposing that which cannot be disproved, namely; that intelligent design alone explains complexity . . . "

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the ping to your posts!

I do not accept the premise that any investigation of the "complexity" of DNA by biologists has established in any way "that intelligence must have been involved." In fact, those who are principally involved in the making of this argument are doing so from the perspective of mathematical probability rather than from scientific investigation because they are proposing that which cannot be disproved, namely; that complexity alone explains intelligent design.

One of these days when we all have some time we need to pick up the conversation about "complexity" in biological systems again.

I do agree with you that it is not biologists who have raised the issue but mathematicians. However, I do not believe the issue of complexity was raised primarily from looking at probabilities but rather in response to the von Neumann challenge with the emphasis on cellular automata (self-organizing complexity).

Nature's Own Software (biography of Wolfram)

Uncertainty, Entropy, and Information - Tom Schneider

A Mathematical Theory of Communication - Claude Shannon

Randomness in Arithmetic - Chaitin

Should we decide to explore the subject though, I would like for tortoise, Doctor Stochastic and betty boop to be involved as well so we can make sure we are all using the same jargon with the same meanings.