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AN OPEN LETTER to the Priests of the Diocese of Campos
Dr. David Allen White, PhD

Posted on 11/22/2004 4:51:06 PM PST by Land of the Irish

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To: Blessed Charlemagne
I am damn tired of the bullshit polemics of this argument.

Then take a hike.

21 posted on 11/22/2004 8:29:12 PM PST by Grey Ghost II
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To: Blessed Charlemagne

I didn't realize I was arguing stupidly.

I hope in the future I can meet your lofty expectations. Heaven knows I wouldn't want to offend you as you have no problem offending the rest of us.


22 posted on 11/22/2004 8:30:31 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Blessed Charlemagne

And by the way, Perricone IS Opus Dei. So is Barreiro in Rome who has already taken over another independent chapel.

You can stick that in your delicate sensibilities.


23 posted on 11/22/2004 8:34:06 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: sinkspur
Actually, they celebrated a "Mass" very similar to the Novus Ordo

They had women in polyester pants suit distributing the Eucharist while some flamer played "On Eagles Wings" on the organ? Yeah, I believe that.

24 posted on 11/22/2004 8:37:02 PM PST by Grey Ghost II
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To: sinkspur

Like hell it does. I've read it. Structure does not equal substance.


25 posted on 11/22/2004 8:48:42 PM PST by Blessed Charlemagne (http://www.angeltowns3.com/members/romanist/index.htm)
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To: Unam Sanctam

Remember what it says on the posting thing: Loose lips sink ships.!! ahha


26 posted on 11/22/2004 8:51:36 PM PST by CouncilofTrent (Quo Primum...)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
I didn't say you were arguing "stupidly".
Who has the delicate sensibilities? We both want the same thing here. I simply want us to stop attempting to kill each other and aim our weapons at the right enemy.
27 posted on 11/22/2004 8:52:05 PM PST by Blessed Charlemagne (http://www.angeltowns3.com/members/romanist/index.htm)
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To: sinkspur

So it says something about gyrating hips, hollering, dressing up like a clown, or having lowering mass attendence? (of course, Im refering to a good portion of the N.O. masses ive seen, except for the clown thing. Maybe there are a good number of good priests trying to escape from the hippie like antics of the Church hierarchy)

THE 60's ARE OVER SINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


28 posted on 11/22/2004 8:55:21 PM PST by CouncilofTrent (Quo Primum...)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Fr. Perricone is not Opus Dei. Nor is Barreiro. These are the kind of baseless accusations that are killing us. Plus, you haven't even established that Opus Dei is bad. I'm not saying I disagree. In fact, I tend to agree. However, this is a public forum. If you are going to accuse someone or something of something, back it up. Otherwise it is at best gossip and at worst, calumny.
29 posted on 11/22/2004 8:56:08 PM PST by Blessed Charlemagne (http://www.angeltowns3.com/members/romanist/index.htm)
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To: Grey Ghost II

You support bullshit polemics? Or rather, sound and well reasoned argumentation?


30 posted on 11/22/2004 8:57:57 PM PST by Blessed Charlemagne (http://www.angeltowns3.com/members/romanist/index.htm)
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To: sinkspur

Is this the only evidence you can cite? HMMMM!?


31 posted on 11/22/2004 8:58:16 PM PST by CouncilofTrent (Quo Primum...)
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To: Blessed Charlemagne
Like hell it does. I've read it. Structure does not equal substance.

Uh, The Didache is equal in structure and substance.

Or, if you prefer, here's Justin, Martyr's account from the CCC:

1345 As early as the second century we have the witness of St. Justin Martyr for the basic lines of the order of the Eucharistic celebration. They have stayed the same until our own day for all the great liturgical families. St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did:

On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place. The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.

When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.

Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.

When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.

Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.

He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.

When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.'

When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.

32 posted on 11/22/2004 9:02:38 PM PST by sinkspur ("It is a great day to be alive. I appreciate your gratitude." God Himself.)
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To: sinkspur

My point is, Mr Sink Spur, that what you are providing is structural at best. It is not conclusive and provides little insight into the substance of the ritual itself. Your claim has been refuted many times over. Is that all you got?


33 posted on 11/22/2004 9:05:48 PM PST by Blessed Charlemagne (http://www.angeltowns3.com/members/romanist/index.htm)
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To: Blessed Charlemagne

You need to do a search on this forum for past Opus Dei threads. There is plenty of evidence within and outside this forum.

A high index of suspicion has been raised for Perricone with documentation he gave an Opus Dei retreat (hint: OD priests are capable of giving their own retreats. Kind of difficult to give an OD retreat unless you have been trained according to their ideology).

Here is Barreiro:


To: Dajjal; Land of the Irish
You do know Fr. Ignacio was educated at Opus Dei's Roman Seminary?

Do you still think they are a no good organization?

7 posted on 10/10/2003 7:15:36 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-religion/998558/posts


34 posted on 11/22/2004 9:10:04 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Blessed Charlemagne
It is not conclusive and provides little insight into the substance of the ritual itself. Your claim has been refuted many times over.

It has never been refuted. It is, in fact, the substance of the ritual.

Does Justin, Martyr's account more closely reflect the Novus Ordo, or the Tridentine?

35 posted on 11/22/2004 9:10:43 PM PST by sinkspur ("It is a great day to be alive. I appreciate your gratitude." God Himself.)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

I'll check it out. Thanks and God Bless!


36 posted on 11/22/2004 9:11:49 PM PST by Blessed Charlemagne (http://www.angeltowns3.com/members/romanist/index.htm)
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To: Blessed Charlemagne
Plus, you haven't even established that Opus Dei is bad.

Opus Dei is a cult. Opus Dei hates tradition. Opus dei loves the Novus Ordo. Opus Dei defends EVERYTHING JPII does. Those things aren't good in my book.

37 posted on 11/22/2004 9:16:24 PM PST by Grey Ghost II
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To: sinkspur
As a matter of basic structure, one could say both. It is not, in fact, the substance of the ritual. It only contains very vague references to liturgical actions that can be found in both. What gets down to the meat of the argument is the prayers offered and there is NO record for the first century and a half (perhaps even more) of that. You have NO substantial argument. The best you can provide is a couple vague references to structure.
38 posted on 11/22/2004 9:18:12 PM PST by Blessed Charlemagne (http://www.angeltowns3.com/members/romanist/index.htm)
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To: Grey Ghost II

Yada, yada, yada. I know the accusations. I'm not disagreeing. I am saying that this is a public forum. You are accusing someone of something publicly without backing anything up. Accusations without proof are baseless and defamatory.


39 posted on 11/22/2004 9:20:31 PM PST by Blessed Charlemagne (http://www.angeltowns3.com/members/romanist/index.htm)
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To: Blessed Charlemagne

OK. Believe whatever you want. The evidence is clear, AFIAC.


40 posted on 11/22/2004 9:21:10 PM PST by sinkspur ("It is a great day to be alive. I appreciate your gratitude." God Himself.)
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