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To: bornacatholic
Note: Many Thanks to Steve Kaster for his help

Adam Kolasinski wrote an article called: "Exaggeration: the Downfall of Both Neo-Catholics and Traditionalists" which can be found at:

http://catholicdefender.com/Apologetics/Traditionalism/exaggeration.htm

First of all, let me start by saying that Adam is one of the few "traditionalists" who I admire. I don't agree with some of his beliefs, but I admire him for not being so radical like the rest of the self-styled traditionalists. When I was in the SSPX email list, he was one of the few people who tried to calm the Rad-Trads down, by making them remember that they are not even theologians and that they need to submit to the Magisterium. However, I still disagree with some of his views. I will only respond to some of the things he pointed out. He says:

"Unfortunately, both sides exaggerate the scope of the dispute and the errors of their opponents, and such exaggeration causes the dispute to become more heated than necessary, often to the extent of becoming uncharitable. Both sides need to keep in mind that no one in this dispute is denying any doctrine that demands the assent of faith, divine or ecclesiastical."

I would say that some Rad-Trads are close or seem to violate the doctrine taught by Vatican 1:

"Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, the Roman church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other church, and that this jurisdictional power of the Roman pontiff is both episcopal and immediate. Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the church throughout the world." (Session 4, Chapter 3, n 2)

They may not say they deny this, but by dissenting from Vatican 2, John XXIII, Paul VI, and John Paul II, they at least imply disobedience. Some would even dare to call John Paul II a heretic, which they don't have any authority to do so. Adam Kolasinski agrees:

"To be sure, some traditionalists, such as those who deny that John Paul II is the true pope or those who deny the jurisdiction of their duly appointed local ordinary, are in fact schismatic, or at least dangerously close. Some, such as those who deny the validity of the Novus Ordo mass (the new rite of mass promulgated by Paul VI in 1969), are dangerously close to heresy."

So on that point we agree. He then says:

"Informed parties on both sides know that Vatican 2 did not teach infallibly, since it has been acknowledged by the papacy numerous times that Vatican 2 defined no doctrine, and it is only when teaching definitively that councils (and popes) are infallible (c.f. Canon 749 of the 1983 Code, Vatican 1, Lumen Gentium, etc., etc.). Of course, the fact that Vatican 2 taught nothing infallibly is lost on a few confused neo-Catholic web essayists such as Shawn McElhinney, who, apparently unable to recognize an oxymoron, thinks Vatican 2 issued decrees that were somehow “definitive in non-defined form,”(http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/distinctions.html)"

I would dispute this. Vatican 2 taught infallibly by means of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium. And I would also defend Shawn's case. It is not an oxymoron that something can be "definitive in non-defined form". By my guess, Shawn here is speaking of acts of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium. Ratzinger says:

"The Magisterium of the Church, however, teaches a doctrine to be believed as divinely revealed (first paragraph) or to be held definitively (second paragraph) with an act which is either defining or non-defining... In the case of a non-defining act, a doctrine is taught infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Bishops dispersed throughout the world who are in communion with the Successor of Peter."(CDF Doctrinal Commentary on Professio Fidei, 9)

Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone S.D.B. says:

"Actually, if we consider the act of teaching, the Magisterium can teach a doctrine as definitive either by a defining act or by a non-defining act. First of all, the Magisterium can proclaim a doctrine as definitive, and thus to be believed with divine faith or to be held in a definitive way, through a solemn ex cathedra pronouncement of the Pope or an Ecumenical Council. However, the ordinary papal Magisterium can teach a doctrine as definitive because it has been constantly maintained and held by Tradition and transmitted by the ordinary, universal Magisterium. This latter exercise of the charism of infallibility does not take the form of a papal act of definition, but pertains to the ordinary, universal Magisterium which the Pope again sets forth with his formal pronouncement of confirmation and reaffirmation (generally in an Encyclical or Apostolic Letter). If we were to hold that the Pope must necessarily make an ex cathedra definition whenever he intends to declare a doctrine as definitive because it belongs to the deposit of faith, it would imply an underestimation of the ordinary, universal Magisterium, and infallibility would be limited to the solemn definitions of the Pope or a Council, in a way that differs from the teaching of Vatican I and Vatican II, which attribute an infallible character to the teachings of the ordinary, universal Magisterium. "(The Magisterium and Dissent, Section 1, no. 2)

Fr. Adriano Garuti also says:

"... a doctrine can be taught not only by a strictly defining act but also by a non-defining act, as in the case of a teaching (or practice connected with a teaching) of the ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Bishops in communion with the Successor of Peter, which can be confirmed or reaffirmed as such by the Roman Pontiff as Head of the College of Bishops, without recourse to a solemn definition: such a doctrine is also taught infallibly and is therefore definitive tenenda, although not de fide credenda. " (Problem of Dissent in Light of the 'Commentary on the Concluding Formula of the Profession of Faith')

So it isn't an oxymoron, but the truth. Adam goes on to say:

"Part of the reason for such exaggeration on the part of neo-Catholics is rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of what “religious submission” entails. Many hold to the mistaken notion that a Catholic must intellectually assent to all non-infallible teachings, without exception. "

I don't think we misunderstand what "religious submission" entails. Ratzinger speaks of religious submission as a "response cannot be simply exterior or disciplinary but must be understood within the logic of faith and under the impulse of obedience to the faith." (Donum Veritatis, 23)

And Fr. Most speaks of religious submission, "What does this require? Definitely, it forbids public contradiction of the teaching. But it also requires something in the mind, as the wording indicates." (Hierarchy of Truths and Four Levels of Teaching)

Adam goes on to quote Donum Veritatis:

"The Church teaches otherwise. For instance, the Instruction on the Ecclesial Vocation of the Theologian, issued by the CDF, states:The willingness to submit loyally to the teaching of the Magisterium on matters per se not irreformable must be the rule. It can happen, however, that a theologian may, according to the case, raise questions regarding the timeliness, the form, or even the contents of magisterial interventions"

But he fails to quote further. Donum Veritatis goes on to say:

"When it comes to the question of interventions in the prudential order, it could happen that some Magisterial documents might not be free from all deficiencies. Bishops and their advisors have not always taken into immediate consideration every aspect or the entire complexity of a question. But it would be contrary to the truth, if, proceeding from some particular cases, one were to conclude that the Church's Magisterium can be habitually mistaken in its prudential judgments, or that it does not enjoy divine assistance in the integral exercise of its mission." (DV, 24)

And that is the problem of the Rad-Trads. Some act contrary to what is said to be "contrary to the truth" above.

Adam goes on to quote more of Donum Veritatis:

"If, despite a loyal effort on the theologian's part, the difficulties persist, the theologian has the duty to make known to the Magisterial authorities the problems raised by the teaching in itself, in the arguments proposed to justify it, or even in the manner in which it is presented…"

First of all, that statement tells us to make the Magisterial authorities aware of our problems. It does not tell us to publically criticize or dissent the Magisterium as in blogs, articles, newspapers, websites, etc. He does not quote the rest, which is very crucial:

"In cases like these, the theologian should avoid turning to the "mass media", but have recourse to the responsible authority, for it is not by seeking to exert the pressure of public opinion that one contributes to the clarification of doctrinal issues and renders service to the truth." (DV, 30)

Many people have criticized my post: "Is it Okay to Complain". I admit, I never read Donum Veritatis before I wrote that. All I did is deep prayer and use "Catholic common sense" I learned from Tradition. And by the grace of God, I was right.

Adam goes on to quote more of Donum Veritatis:

"It can also happen that at the conclusion of a serious study, undertaken with the desire to heed the Magisterium's teaching without hesitation, the theologian's difficulty remains because the arguments to the contrary seem more persuasive to him. Faced with a proposition to which he feels he cannot give his intellectual assent, the theologian nevertheless has the duty to remain open to a deeper examination of the question…"

And he also does not quote the rest, which I believe is essential to the debate. Ratzinger goes on to say:

"For a loyal spirit, animated by love for the Church, such a situation can certainly prove a difficult trial. It can be a call to suffer for the truth, in silence and prayer, but with the certainty, that if the truth really is at stake, it will ultimately prevail." (DV, 31)

Again, it does not tell us to dissent publically, but should practice reverent silence. Adam also quotes a protocol with the FSSP. This is the same as above. One can make the Magisterium aware of their problems, but at the same time, avoid the mass media. Public opposition is even called "dissent" (DV, 32). John Paul II also says:

"... it is certainly necessary to distinguish the attitude of theologians who, in a spirit of cooperation and ecclesial communion, present their difficulties and questions, and thus positively contribute to the maturing of reflection on the deposit of faith, form the public stance of opposition to the Magisterium, which is described as "dissent"; the latter tends to set up a kind of counter-magisterium, presenting believers with alternative positions and forms of behavior."Magisterium Exercises Authority in Christ's Name, Address to Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith 24 November 1995, 4)

To be continued...

posted by Apolonio at 2:52 PM

*Mr. Latar is a high school student. If more Catholics read this faithful high school adolescent rather than the innumerable schismatic adults all about us, we would be better off - and some of us might even begin exhibiting Catholic traits - such as fidelity, obedience, trust, thankfulness, joy etc.

Jesus' promises never fail. He has overcome the world. Accept the truth and peace He is.

Stop acting like the pelagian schismatics (Pelagius regarded the moral strength of man's will (liberum arbitrium), when steeled by asceticism (traditionalism), as sufficient in itself to desire and to attain the loftiest ideal of virtue.) who think that if their own opinions don't hold sway then our Faith will perish. They have no authority. They have no Faith. They have no Hope. THey think Jesus has abandoned His Church.

289 posted on 11/15/2004 7:12:47 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

http://apolonio.blogspot.com/


290 posted on 11/15/2004 7:17:05 AM PST by bornacatholic
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