Posted on 11/10/2004 12:59:06 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
It is beyond doubt, Bishop Rifan did take active part in the New Mass. I watched the 3-hour video tape. This Mass was of the most modern and of an extreme liturgical poverty in spite of the presence of the cardinal representing the Pope. This cardinal was beside often hesitating, not guessing what one or the other of the assistant priests or bishops or the acolytes would be doing next. The miraculous statue was brought at the beginning of the ceremony in a spectacular procession recalling how 3 fishermen miraculously drew in this little 36 cm-high statue in 1717. A beautiful procession indeed, but not suited to a church. Imagine a boat with three fishermen coming up the aisle all the way to the sanctuary… One of the fishermen then placed the statue on its pedestal after having shown it to the different rows of the faithful… each time to the general clapping of hands.
When it was time for the epistle, the governor of Sao Paulo, (center-right politically), came forward to read it.
For the crowning of the statue, a woman – seated next to the bishops in the sanctuary during the ceremony – fetched the statue and presented it to the cardinal to be crowned. Once the statue was crowned, she presented it several times to the clergy and the faithful who were warmly applauding, while confetti were raining down on the heads of the cardinal and the bishops in the sanctuary.
At the offertory, two young acolytes came to pour the wine to be consecrated into the chalices as casually as if they were pouring themselves a glass of water.
The words of consecration pronounced aloud by cardinal de Araújo Sales were, of course, those saying : "…shed for you and for all." The eucharistic prayer n° 2 had been chosen by the bishop.
Then one could see Bishop Rifan joining the bishops’ procession to communicate at the altar. As for the communion of the faithful, no priest or bishop were seen distributing it.
However, at least three women were giving communion… and we saw priests (maybe even bishops) receiving communion from one of them!
Immediately after the Postcommunion, Petrus Ananias, minister for social development (Marxist Workers’ Party), representing Mr. Lula, president of the Republic, began some kind of sermon-discourse from the very sanctuary. All the bishops sat there without flinching! He praised the ecumenical trend of his party, made reference to Jacques Maritain and stated that democracy had evangelical roots, that Our Lady of Aparecida was in solidarity with the movement of liberation and emancipation, and that she was a figure even more human than the Virgin of the Gospels because she was black… and so on, and so forth!
There seems to be marked uneasiness in Campos on this subject because today a priest from Rio who asked about this concelebration to a priest from Campos received as answer that it was not a concelebration but a bishops’ meeting at the shrine of Our Lady of Aparecida.
It is difficult not to speak of lie!
Indeed, CNBB, the Brazilian National Conference of Bishops, announced the following on its website on September, 8: "Hoje, dia 8 de setembro, às 9h, no Santuàrio Nacional, solene concelebração eucarística presidida pelo enviado especial do Papa. Dom Eugênio de Araújo Sales, e concelebrad pelo Núncio Apostólico, Dom Lorenzo Baldisseri, pelo arcebispo de Aparecida, cardeais, arcebispos, bispos e presbíteros – Today, 9/8/04, at 9:00 am, at the national shrine, solemn eucharistic concelebration presided by the special envoy of the Pope, Dom E…, and concelebrated by the Apostolic Nuncio, Dom L. B…, by the Archbishop of Aparecida, the cardinals, archbishops, bishops and priests."
What remains of the booklet published by the priests of Campos : "62 Reasons Why In Conscience, We Cannot Attend the New Mass."?
Fr Joël Danjou, Prior in Santa Maria, Brazil
date : 6/11/2004
cannot argue with St. Pius X. He was a great man.
No I was demonstrating that the argument presented was, in fact, rather silly and non-cogent.
That was funny! Seriously, though, what's the real difference between a heretic and/or schismatic and an apostate and/or pagan? Or have I just answered by own question?
Let me follow "Fr. Moderator"'s logic:
1. Cardinal O'Connor is bad.
2. Therefore, the 1970MR is bad.
Let's apply that same train of thought:
1. Alexander VI is bad.
2. Therefore, the traditional Roman Missal is bad.
Doesn't quite work, does it?
Your demonstration has failed.
What's next? Your demonstration of perpetual motion?
It's not a falsehood. Go to the Catholic Catechism, under the Eucharist, and you'll read how similar the Mass of Paul VI is to the early liturgy of the Church.
Your picture doesn't work. I went to the SSPX French website, but there were only two pictures in the section on Campos and neither of them showed Bp. Rifan on the altar participating. There was one which appeared to show him standing (and still looking annoyed) in the congregation (the people behind him are clearly laypersons). Can you post the picture you're referring to?
You are incorrect.
The sole objection you stated to the Novus Ordo liturgy was that the language used was the vernacular.
I demonstrated that said objection was, at its core, rather silly, simply by extending your
What makes Latin more "sacred" than English or Aramaic? The last is what Jesus actually spoke.
If you have another objection, by all means, I do wish to hear it.
What's next? Your demonstration of perpetual motion?
I leave that to the schismatics of both flavors who perpetually flail against the Magisterium.
Alexander VI didn't codify the Traditional Roman Missal (I think this is the one you were referring to. Please tell me if im mistaken). Anyway, the "Borgia" pope never changed doctrine or the Mass, he was just not a great pope.
Go to the link a few posts above that post. Sometimes pictures don't carry over from certain sites. On the site you will find different pics DICI didn't post.
Rifan is on the altar. He participated by his own admission when he claimed to "fake" participating.
similar, BUT not the same.
The first beneficiary of salvation is the Church. Christ won the Church for himself at the price of his own blood and made the Church his co-worker in the salvation of the world. Indeed, Christ dwells within the Church. She is his Bride. It is he who causes her to grow. He carries out his mission through her ... Dialogue should be conducted and implemented with the conviction that the Church is the ordinary means of salvation and that she alone possesses the fullness of the means of salvation. (Redemptoris Missio, 9; 55)
"what? you don't think the Pope is Catholic?"
I hope he is for his own sake, don't you?
He has certainly said and written a few heretical things, but I'm not qualified to judge whether that means he is not a Catholic. That will be for his successors to decide as his predecessors did with Pope Honorious.
The fact of his being the current pontiff no more prevents him from teaching heresy in his private capacity than it did for his predecessors. A great number of such cases are listed in the Acta of Vatican I.
Its true. He gives the IDEA. I dont know what his personal beliefs are and am not going to go into that.
"Therefore heresy is a species of unbelief, belonging to those who profess the Christian faith, but corrupt its dogmas." (St. Thomas, Summa theologiae, II-II q. 11 a. 1)
schismatic
"Accordingly schismatics properly so called are those who, wilfully and intentionally separate themselves from the unity of the Church ... a schismatic both obstinately scorns the commandments of the Church, and refuses to submit to her judgment" (St. Thomas, Summa theologiae, II-II q. 39 a. 1)
apostate
"But if he give up the faith, then he seems to turn away from God altogether: and consequently, apostasy simply and absolutely is that whereby a man withdraws from the faith" (St. Thomas, Summa theologiae, II-II q. 12 a. 1)
I'll just point out that there is yet another error in the calendar -- it should say "St. Rafka" and not "Blessed Rafka".
You actually believe this?
And Cardinal O'Connor didn't codify the reformed Roman Missal.
Oh, it's not exactly the same. If it were the same, all the laymen at the assembly would be able to testify ("preach"), and each Christian would be able to take the Eucharist home with him for consumption during the week.
But for those and a couple of other minor details, the Mass of Paul VI is exactly like the Eucharistic service detailed in the Didache.
My sincerest apologies! And, thank you, for pointing out an additional error! A Maronite blessing on you and your family :-)
Better yet, take a moment to visit Sandyeggo's parish web site. Her pastor, Fr. Nabil, began with only 20 families when he arrived in 1992. That number now stands at more than 300, with 1,000 during the holy days. It's worth the visit!
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