Religion and Salvation

Bridegroom Press ^ | Steve Kellmeyer

[skellmeyer]

Someone recently asked me, “What must I do to be saved?” He wasn’t asking because he expected me to know the answer exactly. He was more interested in seeing what I would say. But, as you might expect, the answer to the question "what must I do to be saved" is both a lot shorter and a lot longer than we all probably expect.

The short answer is Christ's: Love God with everything you are and above all else and love your neighbor as yourself. The long answer is elaborating on what this means in day-to-day life.

[aimhigh]

It's just that parts of the old covenant have been superseded.

You relied on an imaginary story, apparently having no scriptures to back you up. No where is there a scripture which says we are set free from "parts" of the law or old covenant. In Hebrews 8, the old covenant is declared obsolete and passing away.

[skellmeyer]

The old covenant is obselete and completely superseded, eh? Guess I don't have to worry about the Ten Commandments anymore then, do I? That's Old Covenant. We live in the New Covenant.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Clearly Paul doesn't mean to say what you think he does.

[stuartcr]

What made that person think that they needed to be saved?....and from what?

[Jubal]

> Baptism is necessary for salvation,

Prove it. scripture with scripture

> but God permits salvation to come to the unbaptized because

> because God is humble enough to allow mercy to triumph over justice.

God is humble?!? Are you nuts. His justice is His mercy, without Jesus paying (y)our price
(Heb 9:22* And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.)
on the Cross you'd have no access to God, let alone salvation. Not unless you converted to Judaism and observed the Law(including the sacrifices of animals-(refer to Heb 9:22 & Lev.)).

God is humble indeed. You have it backwards.

> The one thing the resurrected Christ emphasized was the importance of baptism.

To the Jewish converts. But after the stoning of Stephen Jesus took Paul aside, as you might recall, whereupon at a later date Paul had to take Peter aside and get him on the right track, AGAIN(lots of zeal but a tad bit fearful of the opinions of men that Peter).

> Two of the four Gospels explicitly state this emphasis (Matthew and Mark). Jesus emphasized the importance of baptism in John 3, so did John the Baptist. Indeed, the Baptist even gave Christ a new title in the context of water baptism, insisting that Christ's water baptism came from heaven while his own did not.

You sir(or Lady:) should consider allowing the spirit of God to lead you into all truth. Beginning with 'rightly dividing the word of truth'. God will reveal the truth to anyone who sincerely wants to know it, ANYONE!

> Acts insists that baptism washes away sins, while Peter's letters insist that baptism saves you now.

Prove it. Scripture with scripture!

I'm gonna tell you how it is and then you can return to kicking at the pricks.

God in his justice DEMANDS blood sacrifice of a spotless lamb. Prior to His Son taking on human flesh that was carried out to differing degrees utilizing various creatures prescribed by His Law. If you check, you'll find that blood sacrifice was required before the law that was given to Moses.

So...in order to satisfy His law for all time, for the sake of His creatures who were originally created in His image, His Son Jesus came, lived a sinless(spotless) life and at the behest of the Adversary with men as his facilitators, Jesus was crucified. Only his sinless(spotless) blood was/IS sufficient to cover any mans sins, let alone all of humanity for all time.

(BTW, who was Jesus preaching to for those 3 days, and were they baptized?)

Finally, we're told again and again 'ye must believe on' who. Don't you see the Almighty's mercy in the simplicity of 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou SHALT be saved'? Let me explain it then: except with with extreme torture or modern day drugs, another man cannot make up your mind for you, or change it. And long before they get to that point, IN THE QUIET OF ONES THOUGHTS, anyone can believe anything they like. And we certainly do. Mostly not pleasing to God but nonetheless within the confines of His justice(not honor) he made a way whereby any man could grasp onto salvation in the quiet of his heart where no other man could stop him from calling upon Jesus. Baptism is a duty after the fact of believing. Believing on Jesus is what we must do.

I take comfort too in the fact that after we repent and trust the Lord, no matter what is done to us, we will remain the Lord's forever.

You're wrong about the requirements of salvation, and please do pray about it as you are likely to be misleading souls in trusting in baptism instead of Jesus Christ. The One who died and rose again? That would entail eternal consequences added to your account and their discomfort. May Peace Be With You! Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[skellmeyer]

>> Acts insists that baptism washes away sins, while Peter's letters insist that baptism saves you now.

>Prove it. Scripture with scripture!

Click over to www.bridegroompress.com/sc/baptism.htm. If that doesn't do it for you, then you don't read Scripture very well.

[aimhigh]

Clearly Paul doesn't mean to say what you think he does.

Clearly, Paul did mean what he said - which is that Christ freed us from the law, of which the Ten Commandments are the cornerstone. The Ten Commandments are frequently referred to as "tablets of the covenant", even in the the New Testament.

Hebrews 8:13 says, "In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." When Jesus spoke of the New That covenant in his blood, He also gave a New Commandment that is greater than the old.

[skellmeyer]

Great! So Martin Luther was right. We CAN commit adultery a hundred times a day and still be saved.

Thanks for clearing that up. I haven't run into a real Lutheran in ages.

[aimhigh]

Great! So Martin Luther was right. We CAN commit adultery a hundred times a day and still be saved.

Obviously you are ignorant of New Testament commandments. 1 Thess 4:1-8 clearly commands against sexual immorality. But, if you want to live in the Old Testament and ignore New Testament commands - Shalom.

[DouglasKC]

Clearly, Paul did mean what he said - which is that Christ freed us from the law, of which the Ten Commandments are the cornerstone. The Ten Commandments are frequently referred to as "tablets of the covenant", even in the the New Testament.
Hebrews 8:13 says, "In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." When Jesus spoke of the New That covenant in his blood, He also gave a New Commandment that is greater than the old.

The laws are still there...they're written in the hearts of believers:

Heb 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

A converted Christians life will eventually come to conform to the written law because conversion makes one want to yield to the law written in our hearts and minds. The ten commandments are the written equivelent to the this spiritual and mental process.

[aimhigh]

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:

He's referring to the laws of Christ - New Testament commandments.

[skellmeyer]

Well, the NT doesn't say anything about not taking God's name in vain - so that MUST be alright, eh?

[DouglasKC]

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
He's referring to the laws of Christ - New Testament commandments.

I would agree to a point. By the time of Christ Judaism had lost the meaning of what had been written in scripture. They had elevated the physical act of conforming to the commandments as the utmost priority. Thus a truly reprehensible person inwardly could continue to appear holy and righteous outwardly.

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

What the scribes and Pharisees didn't understand was that a change of heart is what would transform them and conform their life to the ten commandments. The purpose of the written commandments is to show us where we are deficient in our spiritual character.

So the laws that are put into our hearts and minds seem to be the ten commandments. Or rather, the spiritual equivalent of the written law, love for God and others. Here's why I say that:

2Cr 3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

Above Paul compares the old tablets of stone (the written ten commandments) to what is written in our hearts.

It's also why Christ says:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If we love God with all our heart and soul and mind, and others as ourselves then our outward appearance AND our inward state will be the same. We won't be like a clean tomb on the outside but full of lawlessness on the inside.

[aimhigh]

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Note that the above commandments were prior to the New Commandment in John 13:34. 1 John 3:23 says, "THIS is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."

We are free from the law, and the above commandments were the foundation of that law. We now have commandments that raise the standards. We now are expected to love as Christ loved, not as we love ourselves. IF you find the license to sin in this, then you're reading with your flesh.

[DouglasKC]

Note that the above commandments were prior to the New Commandment in John 13:34. 1 John 3:23 says, "THIS is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."
We are free from the law, and the above commandments were the foundation of that law. We now have commandments that raise the standards. We now are expected to love as Christ loved, not as we love ourselves. IF you find the license to sin in this, then you're reading with your flesh.

I agree with that. I'm not making the case that Christians are under the law. I'm making the case that if we have the perfect love that Christ had, our hearts, minds and life will conform to the law.

If we love our neighbor with perfect love we would not kill them or to even think badly about them. If we love our spouses with Godly levels of love we would never think about committing adultery much less doing it. We would never covet anything that isn't ours, etc. This is precisely the type of love Christ had for us. This is the type of love we are to have for each other.

The ten commandments and Christ's elaboration on them are the benchmark, the definition, of love. If there is no definition than "love" becomes nothing more than a fuzzy feel good word.

Paul summed it up better than I:

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

[Jubal]

I was looking for you to make your case; not some anonymous web site.

[skellmeyer]

Well, I wrote that anonymous web site (which isn't anonymous - it has my name on it), so I don't see the point of writing the same thing twice.