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To: Mershon
I think all that is great, my hat off to you, but you are missing the point I am many others have been making. I have never attacked the indult neither in public nor in private. I am sure there have been some on this site who do but I do not see it very often. Many of the people who defend SSPX are Indult people but it is a bit of a split down the middle as far as I can tell. This half-n-half situation is one of the major reasons I do not attack them, the other being sympathy for their situation. They will be coming for you just as soon as they can. I bet you suspect this is right even if you dread to admit it. Who wants to admit something we love has gone bad? Fixable but gone bad just the same. Is the Pope to blame, shucks I don't know but he is responsible just the same. I wish it were not true because I want to like the man but I haven't been able to bring myself to gouge out my eyes just yet. Is that being harsh, yes it is, very harsh, but is it wrong?

Half of you Indult folks come to our defense and half attack us. Some one side one thread, on the other side with the next. I need a program to keep up. I have not noticed a similar divide with the SSPXers. Please don't tell me "Well so and so on this thread....." I know there have been people who have said bad things about the Indult, my point is most do not, not most SSPXers and not most Novus Ordo, hootingnanny Mass types.

But you have about SSPX and they are most likely the only reason you have your Indult.



By the way, your welcome.
260 posted on 09/21/2004 1:34:50 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South
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To: Mark in the Old South

<I think all that is great, my hat off to you, but you are missing the point I am many others have been making.

BCM: I answer your direct question directly, and then you say I am missing the point.

<I have never attacked the indult neither in public nor in private. I am sure there have been some on this site who do but I do not see it very often.

BCM: SSPX literature, which I picked up and read again after attending the chapel, said effectively that Catholis attached to Tradition should not attend the Novus Ordo because it is "evil" and should not attend the indult. I read this years ago, and now I read it again. It is dangerous to tell people to stay at home and NOT go to Mass, when the Mass is the Mass, but it is the LITURGY we are really discussing.

<Many of the people who defend SSPX are Indult people but it is a bit of a split down the middle as far as I can tell.

BCM: And believe it or not, I have been one of them. I read the most recent issue of Latin Mass and thought Bishop Fellay's Q&A (BRAND NEW and I can't find it on the web) was phenomenal. I continue to hope and pray for a reconciliation.

<This half-n-half situation is one of the major reasons I do not attack them, the other being sympathy for their situation.

BCM: Me too. But I also think that having a LARGE Novus Ordo parish (where our indult is offered) to evangelize too is also advantageous to building the Kingdom.

<They will be coming for you just as soon as they can. I bet you suspect this is right even if you dread to admit it. Who wants to admit something we love has gone bad?

BCM: I am quite uncertain what you are speaking about.

<Half of you Indult folks come to our defense and half attack us. Some one side one thread, on the other side with the next.

BCM: It depends upon the specific topic. I would not say we are attacking anyone. We clarify ideas and put up what Vatican I and Ecclesia Dei Adflicta say. I am not saying any particular people here are SSPX adherents. That is for your own examination of conscience. I can say what it appears to be based upon what certain people write. I also know that the SSPX attendees, for the most part, are just Catholics seeking solace. However, the diocesan structure, even those open to the indult, are easily dissuaded by the type of acrimony and discussions we have on this board.

Like it or not, the individual feelings and predispositions of Novus Ordo bishops and priests do matter in the Big Church. We might not like that, but it is a fact of life. I would prefer to keep them on our side, or at least tolerate us.

And our younger pre-seminarians, well, my children will be richly blessed, because the half dozen or so I know are traddies through and through--or at least coming that way. But this kind of acrimony could dissuade them. This is my primary concern--as well as the sede tendencies I detect here.

"We acknowledge the Pope is the Pope, but we pick and choose what we want to obey."

This is the impression I am left with.

<But you have about SSPX and they are most likely the only reason you have your Indult. By the way, your welcome.

BCM: No, the Mass survived because Ratzinger and the Pope stuck to their original agreement with Lefebvre. Unfortunately, Lefebvre did not. I used to agree we had it because of him, but we really have it due to our bishop, the Pope and our director of prayer and worship who offers it.

I would say "thank you," but you are not Lefebvre as far as I can tell. What I would have said to him was "Think about how much more good you could have done and leaven your priests could have provided from within the heart and soul of the Church."

I am not in any way saying there are not good fruits. But everything SSPX is NOT a good fruit.


261 posted on 09/21/2004 2:05:42 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: Mark in the Old South
Traditionally speaking, the Church has spent centuries working on issues, making certain that a decision was right. Now, we have a major change once or twice a year.
Would you be surprised to see another new Mass before the decade is out?
There seems to be no end to it. The Church resembles a US public university in this respect.
Isn't the Church supposed to take care of its flock? If so, what is to be said about the Great Falling Away we have experienced over the past generation?
262 posted on 09/21/2004 2:11:25 PM PDT by charliemarlow
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