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"You discern a "flaw" in the Sacrifice? Prithee, demonstrate."

Don't take my word for it, rather read the words of Cardinal Ottoviani, in his much quoted 'intervention'. And that was against the much more pious Mass than the one we finally ended up with. If you two think the clown Masses we see today are as perfect as the Tridentine Mass, then even talking to you is a waste of time.

Bugnini was banished because of his ties to masonry, and your bringing up the conspiracy bugaboo doesn't change that. If you can't refute, then ridicule?

And Paul VI was 'banished' by Pius XII to a plum See because of his involvement, in secret, with communists, against strict orders not to. Pius never gave him his red hat, despite the importance of the See. He only got it because he had made friends with John XXIII. (This all happened before they were made Pope, obviously, but I just can't recall their pre Pope names at the moment)

So if you want to ridicule the conspiracy theory thing, you just show your own ignorance - or your true colors.

So if you want to ridicule the conspiracy theory thing, you just show your own ignorance - or your true colors.

You just continue to get further out there, Arguss.

Ottaviani rebuked his "intervention." Now, you'll come back and say somebody made him sign something against his will, but, see, I can always predict what a conspiracist will say.

One can never beat a conspiracist in an argument, because there's always another boogey man around the corner.

Don't take my word for it, rather read the words of Cardinal Ottoviani

I've read it. Ottaviani NEVER said that the Sacrifice was 'flawed' in the proposed NO, nor would he EVER state that it IS "flawed" in the current NO.

To do so, of course, is heresy.P>Further, as you should know, Bugger Bugnini was banished--and his friend, Rembert Weakland was banished, too, causing white martyrdom for a whole LOTTA Catholics in Baghdad and Milwaukee.

So what?

THEIR banishment has nothing whatever to do with the liceity OR the validity of a Canonized Rite.

I think Bugnini did have ties to Masonry. However,the story is that the event that sealed his fate in the Church involved he and Weakland. Bugnini was exiled at the same time Weakland was sent packing to remain forever in Milwaukee as an archbishop because the two of them were caought en flagrante,in a very embarrassing tryst by the Italian police.

I read this in two books written originally in Italy and then one,possibly sourced by the same books I read,written in English.