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To: 1john2 3and4

You seem to have some strong convictions/biases on those scores that I just don't have.

It's conceivable. I'm just not near on the same page on that score yet.

Still happy to listen and understand what you're saying. . . and to consider it fairly genuinely.


67 posted on 08/05/2004 7:57:45 PM PDT by Quix (PRAYER WARRIORS, DO YOUR STUFF! LIVES AND NATIONS DEPEND ON IT)
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To: Quix; 1john2 3and4; All
OK I don't think we can get far with out taking all the cross references in also. As I go some ideas seen to change and sometimes I go back and forth.

I went just by two verses Daniel 7: 7-8 (and 9 I only include 9 because there were actions of the beast). After this post I will list all traits on one post to see better. I posted the cross referenced of the verses also.

Tomorrow I will work on cross referencing the cross references.

I am getting a clearer picture but we still need to dig deeper. I have to think about this tonight before I can make a for sure statement. (It always takes me a day or so to regurgitate what I have learned the day before.)

Traits of the Ten Horns and Little Horn
specific characteristics and actions of the little horn.

Daniel 7
7 "After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a (1) fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had (2) ten horns.
8 "While I was contemplating the horns, behold, (3) another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and (4) a mouth uttering great boasts.

1. dreadful and terrifying
2.extremely strong
3.large iron teeth
4.devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet
5.different from all beast before it
6.had ten horns

OK will we all say this is the old Roman Empire? 1-6

ref.1. cross-reference
Daniel 7
19 "Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the (1) fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet,
20 and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than its associates.
23 "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.
fourth beast
1.different from others
2.exceedingly dreadful
3.teeth of iron
4.claws of bronze
5.devoured,crushed and trampled down the remainder with his feet
6.meaning of ten horns on its head
7.the other horn which came up, and before three of them fell, namely, that horn
8.eyes and mouth
9.uttering great boast
10.larger in appearance than its associates
11.waging war with the saints and overpowering them
12.fourth kingdom on the earth
13.different from all other kingdoms
14.devour the whole earth
15.tread it down (earth)
16.crush it (earth)

ref.2 cross-reference
Revelation 12
The Red Dragon, Satan
3 Then (1) another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red (2) dragon having (3) seven heads and (4) ten horns, and on his heads were (5) seven diadems.

Revelation 13
The Beast from the Sea
1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a (1) beast coming up out of the sea, having (2) ten horns and (3) seven heads, and on his horns were (4) ten diadems, and on his heads were (5) blasphemous names.
1.great red dragon
2.seven heads
3.ten horns
4.seven diadems (crowns)
5.dragon stood on the sand of the seashore
6.coming out of the sea
7.ten horns
8.seven heads
9.ten diadems
10.on his heads were blasphemous names

ref. cross-ref. 3
Daniel 8
The Little Horn
9 Out of one of them came forth a rather (1) small horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the [1] (2) Beautiful Land.
FootnotesI.e. Palestine( this is in the bible I have.)
1.grew exceedingly great toward the south
2.toward the east
3.toward the Beautiful Land

ref. 4. cross-fer.
Revelation 13
5 There was given to him a mouth (1) speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for (2) fourty-two months was given to him.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, (3) those who dwell in heaven.
1. given to him a mouth
2.speaking arrogant words
3.speaking blasphemies
4.authority to act for fourty-two months
5.blasphemies against GOD
6.blaspheme HIS name and HIS tabernacle, those that live in heaven

ref.5. cross-fer
Revelation 20
4 Then I saw (1) thrones, and (2) they sat on them, and (3) judgment was given to them. And I saw (4) the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their (5) testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not (6) worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the (7) mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they (8) came to life and (9) reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
1.beheaded because of testimony of Jesus
2.must worship the beast and his image
3.must receive mark on forehead or hand
68 posted on 08/05/2004 11:22:20 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (There is no such thing as coincidence, GOD is in control.)
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To: 1john2 3and4; Quix; All

I guess I don't see even the most powerful non-government institutions being able to do that ok...but what if it's been DONE already, and we're just not 'seeing' it? maybe not seeing it because we're deceived as well?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is a hard one but I think further study will iron this out. Sometimes I go through these spells of being deceived and then I figure out I am not. We live in a crazy world...I figure and it has worked for me so far is to keep seeking, at least my heart is looking for the right thing.



the natural question, seems to me, is....what law(s) is referred to here? -"THE" law? (10 commandments)....the civic/ceremonial laws? (rel. to sanctuary worship & crime/punishment).... or the health laws ('unclean' meat, etc...)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is the verse ...and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law;

and I cross referenced it to... key words are law and epoch

Daniel 2:21 "It is He who (1) changes the times and the epochs;He removes kings and establishes kings;He gives (3) wisdom to wise men And knowledge to men of understanding.

Then went to the dictionary for epoch.

Which makes me think he is going to try and perform something Christ-like.

Law=epochs=A fixed point of time, established in history by the occurrence of some grand or remarkable event; a point of time marked by an event of great subsequent influence; as, the epoch of the creation; the birth of Christ was the epoch which gave rise to the Christian era. ,br.



I just want to Thank You BOTH I am learning so much. I thought this was talking about law as in "golden rule" or "ten commandments" We are really going to learn a lot from each other.


72 posted on 08/06/2004 1:07:19 AM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (There is no such thing as coincidence, GOD is in control.)
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