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To: ultima ratio
Not if the life of the Church is at stake. All your arguments lose force against this enormity. What's going on is a modernist crisis without precedence. You are using legalisms that can't apply in such an emergency.
"That in these later times there has been spread a general obscuring of the more important truths pertaining to religion, which are the basis of faith and of the moral teachings of Jesus Christ."

"In this itself (discipline) there is to be distinguished what is necessary or useful to retain the faithful in spirit, from that which is useless or too burdensome for the liberty of the sons of the new Covenant to endure, but more so, from that which is dangerous and harmful, namely, leading to superstition and materialism." (Synod of Pistoia, as quoted in "Auctorem Fidei" of Pius VI)

The Jansenists thought there was a crisis too. The true traditional Augustinian doctrine had been obscured by the Popes - measures were necessary for resistance. Disciplines had been imposed by the Pope leading to "superstition and materialism".

881 posted on 07/21/2004 7:18:38 PM PDT by gbcdoj (No one doubts ... that the holy and most blessed Peter ... lives in his successors, and judges.)
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To: gbcdoj

There has never been a crisis as in the present time. Never before has Rome ever turned its back on its own past and attempted to re-orient the Church to the world it had once opposed. Nor had the Church ever before entered in a period of such swift, precipitous auto-destruction comparable to what has been occurring in the last forty years, all the while simultaneously introducing a new Mass, new prayers, new architecture, new music, new calendar, new rites of sacraments, new theology, new doctrines, new ecclesiastical structures. At the same time whole countries which once had been champions of the Catholic faith--Ireland, the Netherlands, Italy, Spain--became alien and hostile territories. Nor is this all. Scandal after scandal has struck the Church in huge tsunami-like waves of corruption. The missions have been wrecked, the religious orders have collapsed, catechesis is a joke. Don't try to tell me this is routine and that those in power the past forty years bear no responsibility for all this damage and destruction. They most certainly do. Paul VI and JPII especially.


885 posted on 07/21/2004 7:35:33 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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