Posted on 07/15/2004 6:17:56 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
Too bad it couldn't have been held in a Church, as is TRADITIONAL.
Of course considering it was to be a first-rate Circus featuring such clowns as Fr. Williamson and of course Bishop Castro de Mayer waltzing down the "aisle" pranting "we have no Pope", perhaps the venue of a Big-Top was appropriate.
Funny, when I was Confirmed, the bishop said I was a soldier of Christ not the New World Order.
The Novus Ordo has mostly the same Secrets as the Gregorian Missal and Tridentine Missal. Some are from other ancient Missals. See here, which includes, sources and accurate translations:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/8881/liturgy/prayers/prayers.html
If the propitiary nature was sufficiently demonstrated by the Secret in the Gregorian Missal, than the same is certainly good enough for the Novus Ordo too.
You stretch credulity here when the Pope was trying to negotiate a regularization of the SSPX situation, including the granting of a new Bishop. Also when the results of the consecrations were the approval of a number of traditionalist groups to work within the Church to augment the already approved 1984 norms for continuing to use the 1962 Missal.
How can a "sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving" be made at the hands of the Priest?
LOL!! And Lefebvre was so transparent in his rush to consecration.
You're getting more and more dishonest. You've changed from "interfaith services" and "exchanging pulpits" to having get togethter and talk sessions with protestant neighbors. I used to think better of you ... guess I was wrong.
The post is NOT disingenous, and it doesn't deal with the twaddle and feint/dodge garbage you cite.
Oh, I dunno. Maybe 15,000 posts flailing away at the Pope, the Curia, the NO Mass,
...and far more seriously, all those posts ALSO chip away at the Faith of other Catholics who don't conduct serious inquiry.
(EG) all the OTHER pertinacious adherents to SSPX. We deal here not only with disobedience born of arrogance--but scandal.
It takes nerve--chutzpah-- to declaim the Bishops of this Church for "hiding" pervert priests while at the same time attempting to drag souls off the Bark of Peter.
Why are you so supportive of "Queerchuch"? Children are being raped by priests and all you can do is point at others and yell "schism".
By the way, the Bark is sinking and the captain is off writing a new book. Tell me who has the chutzpah?
It can't sink.
I know it can't sink completely. But most of the passengers can perish. You guys are type that would throw the women and the children off the ship so that you could remain in good favor with the captain.
Oh, the dangers to the faith that the SSPX perceives in the fact that the Roman Catholic Church has the nerve to continue with a pope who disobeys the nasty little schism having already excommunicated its impious patron "saint" of disobedience and his illicitly consecrated junior associate bishops without portfolio or dioceses. Apparently JP II does not understand the SSPX view that his function is to serve as their punching bag (standing in for the entire actual Catholic Church) so long as he offends their rarified and obsessive collective tastes.
As to matters legal, you are as reliable on the law as you are on the Church. I practiced law for decades and you did not. Summary justice is allowable for misconduct in the personal or constructive presence of the court. JP II is the court. He is the legislator. He directly ordered Marcel NOT to consecrate Marcel's partners in ecclesiastical crime. Marcel knew that and agreed in writing not to do so. Unless you claim that the Econe 4 were ignorant of the pope's order, they too fall into the summary justice category. There are no ecclesiastical juries, either.
Your second paragraph eloquently demonstrates the wisdom of Leo XIII in rejecting what he termed the Americanist heresy: inetr alia, that things are different in the US and require different standards. Wrong though you are on even the American law, you try to graft your errors as to American law onto the Roman Catholic Church in Church courts where no recognition is or should be given to American notions of due process since the Roman Catholic Church owes nothing whatsoever to the schismatic platoon or its members and since the Roman Catholic Church established by Jesus Christ needs no restraints upon it unlike governments formed by men. Also, if SSPX has "truth" on its side, that would be by coincidence and not design since SSPX is passionately devoted to YOPIOT rather than actual truth, as its defenders here regularly demonstrate.
Your third paragraph is more of the Americanist methodological erro of your second paragraph but there is more. Now, with typical self-abnegation and humility, the SSPX trolls claim to know the judgment of heaven which, of course, they claim is against the pope. In this, they confuswe themselves with Heaven apparently confusing themselves with the Deity. Your third paragraph also confuses "fair-mindedness" wuith having a sieve for brians and extreme gullibility.
Finally, you who make it your relentless career to accuse the Holy Father of anything and everything that your imagination may conjure in trying to discredit the Holy Father so as to lessen the sting of his judgments upon Marcel, the Econe 4 and the SSPX, have the consummate gall to use the word "fairness." Fairness would have been summarily ordering Marcel and the Econe 4 burned at the stake. Regrettably, experienced help in such executions is hard to find and a couple of them are beyond execution by virtue of natural death and most of today's wimpy nations refuse extradition for such justice.
Did we imagine Assisi I?
Did we imagine Assisi II
Did we imagine the kissing of the Koran?
Did we imagine him wearing the mark of Shiva?
Did we imagine that a known apostate (Kasper) was appointed to a high-level cardinal?
Did we imaging the Ballamand statement?
Did we imagine the Catholic Lutheran Joint Declaration?
\ Did we imagine the desecration of Fatima without a peep from the Holy Father?
If I imagined all of this, then the Holy father is actually Mr. Rogers. "It's a happy day in the ecumenical neighborhood...won't you be my friend?"
What you certainly imagined was that it was possible to adhere to the SSPX scism and yet to somehow be Catholic. Once that is understood to be your position, to what else should anyone actually Catholic listen that issues from the SSPX mouth or keyboard. This is not a debate.
Why do you lie? Is that no longer a sin in your "church"?
Yes, because the sole source for that is Msgr. Lefebvre, and it was denied by Abp. Foley who explained:
Indian Catholics...use "Aarti" when a child returns home after receiving First Holy Communion, and when a newly married couple are received by their respective families. Nowadays, "Aarti" is often performed to greet the principal celebrant at a liturgical event, as it was on the occasion shown in the photograph. On such occasions, "Aarti" is usually offered by a Catholic married lady, and certainly not by a "priestess of Shiva" as has been alleged ... Use of the "Aarti" ceremonial by Indian Catholics is no more the worship of a heathen deity than is the decoration of the Christmas tree by American Christians a return to the pagan rituals of Northern Europe. Your schismatic friend in the Society of St Pius X should check his facts before spreading such malicious gossip about the Holy Father (cf. Acts 23:1-5). He was simply about to say Mass and received the traditional Indian form of greeting for the celebrant.
Did we imagine that a known apostate (Kasper)
Provide proof of Kasper's apostasy. I was unaware that he had renounced Christianity and became a Buddhist/Muslim/Hindu.
Perfidiæ is the complete and voluntary abandonment of the Christian religion, whether the apostate embraces another religion such as Paganism, Judaism, Mohammedanism, etc., or merely makes profession of Naturalism, Rationalism, etc. The heretic differs from the apostate in that he only denies one or more of the doctrines of revealed religion, whereas the apostate denies the religion itself, a sin which has always been looked upon as one of the most grievous.
More ecumenical fun. You are pathetic.
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