Father Zigrang suspended by Bishop Joseph Fiorenza

Christ or Chaos ^ | 15th July 2004 | Dr Thomas Droleskey

[ninenot]

So SOmerville did NOT join SSPX. Hmmmmm...

I would ask you 'why,' but you know the answer.

I applaud his work and his conversion, by the way. He did plenty of damage back in the 1970's.

[ninenot]

Can't very well run for Pope when the background investigation indicates serious suspension problems on FR, can you?

[ninenot]

Second your reaction.

I have NEVER seen a "share the pulpit" Sunday up here, although I know they exist in a couple (a COUPLE) of local parishes.

Call it 10 of 425. Wow.

[ninenot]

cosmic christ

There IS a legitimate use of that term--Ratzinger refers to it when the veil of the Temple was ripped.

IOW, the presence of God was no longer confined to the Temple when the Sacrifice was completed.

I understand your problem with your ex-pastor.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

there is no such thing as a traditional Catholic bishop outside of the SSPX

So all Eastern Catholic bishops are a bunch of worthless two bit apostate wannabees to?

[ninenot]

Gott in Himmel!!!!

Bishop Bruskewitz actually SPOKE with a number of Protestants! Discussed Baptism with them! Showed up at a consecration!

And....(drum roll here)....participated in an "interdenominational Service"!!!!

Egads. Next thing you know, B. will be denounced for having said "hi" to the corner Protty cop.

[ninenot]

What a list of crimes.

You'd best not move to Lincoln.

[ninenot]

"...attending the installation of a Methodist bishop is _____"

Neighborly. Civil. Acting like an adult.

[ninenot]

Mike Jones of the old Fidelity mag was skeptical of the Martin wing of the Charos, too. Franciscan/Steubenville is a charo college.

But charismatic is not identical to heterodox--whereas SSPX IS identical to schism.

[drstevej]

***Can't very well run for Pope when the background investigation indicates serious suspension problems on FR, can you?***

I plan to argue my longevity as the evidence of my first miracle on the path to RC sainthood.

Given my background, this will be the least of my obstacles...

wife
two kids
proddy ordination
cerdo baptist, dispensational, Amyraldian theology
fluency in Pig Latin only
etc, etc.

But my platform should make me simply irresistible.

http://www.geocities.com/popepiel/


How can it be possible?
Did we miss an encyclical?
That kind of choice is heretical
He's anything but typical
He's a pope you'll endorse, he's a powerful force
You're obliged to conform, and there's no other choice
The NO used to look good to me, but now I find him
Simply irresistible, Simply irresistible!

He's so fine, there's no tellin' where Mahoney went
He's got spine, those poofsters have to go!

Simply irresistible!

[ninenot]

I never thought I'd ever say this, in my lifetime, but I'll stand with Bishop Bruskewitz

You've had an EPIPHANY!!!

I'll cut/paste this and email it to Bp. B immediately.

[ninenot]

I'm old enough to remember this--and the rule is still applicable.

In the good old days, no Catholic was allowed to PARTICIPATE in a non-Catholic service. However, they could OBSERVE (sit in the back, act civilized) such services.

Of course, there were the Scrupulous, who simply would not go into a Prot church for any reason whatsoever.

Scruples evidently still have a few adherents.

Perhaps you can demonstrate where saying an "Our Father" with a Prot is, say, disobedient to the Pope, or is a violation of Canon Law...1917 or 1983?

You must have a citation which definitively proves that these activities are sinful, right?

Well, then, come up with it!

[AAABEST]

And I think the problem has a good deal more to do with materialism and material comfort than it does with the form of the Mass, or the queers in the priesthood.

Father Corapi was on EWTN using the exact phrase "crisis" to describe our current condition. To say we have "a" problem and to reduce it to any one issue is to be simplistic.

I've listed just a hanful of the deeply troubling conditions that exist within our church that didn't a few decades ago, but for some reason you've chosen to pretend that you didn't hear me.

As to the form of the mass such is vital, it's the center of Catholicism. It's what makes us Catholic. The only reason why the Western world is Christian and why you see the happy-clappy Protestant services is because of the Sunday mass.

We often debate the mass in the worldly sense forgetting the supernatural aspect. I find it telling that many of our problems began the moment in history that we made the mass less reverential to Him.

[gbcdoj]

So all Eastern Catholic bishops are a bunch of worthless two bit apostate wannabees to?

Of course they are. Didn't you see the thread a while back - the Society had to establish the Society of St. Josaphat to preserve the latinizations in the Eastern rites. And we all know that using the vernacular in the liturgy, as the Ukrainians have done since the 1940s, is EVIL - just take a look at Mediator Dei 60:

In spite of this, the use of the mother tongue in connection with several of the rites may be of much advantage to the people.

[gbcdoj]

Perhaps you can demonstrate where saying an "Our Father" with a Prot is, say, disobedient to the Pope, or is a violation of Canon Law...1917 or 1983?

This must be it!

Although in all these meetings and conferences any communication whatsoever in worship must be avoided, yet the recitation in common of the Lord's Prayer or of some prayer approved by the Catholic Church, is not forbidden for opening or closing the said meetings. (Holy Office, 1949 Instruction on the Ecumenical Movement)

[TradicalRC]

Cute parable. Unfortunately, you forgot to mention the part where the tour guides and the cannibals have an "understanding". The tour guides supply the cannibals with fresh meat and they don't get eaten.
If you see this as a problem, the solution must be to obey the tour guides and "dialogue" with the cannibals.

[gbcdoj]

There is not a line of Trent that is not clear.

Really. Why do traditionalists, including priests, try to claim that can. xiii of the Decree on the Sacraments of the Seventh Session of Trent outlaws changes to the liturgy, even by the Pope? Isn't Trent so clear that no one could misunderstand it?

And the Pope writes as if the Archbishop were bound to believe whatever he or the Council asserted, regardless of its novelty.

Again: he's talking about religious liberty and ecumenism (according to the documents - which do not justify Assisi!). Cardinal Oddi denounced Assisi and the Pope didn't go after him.

[TradicalRC]

Go to Catholic churches around the world and ask people if Vatican II and the New Mass are causing them to lose their faith and if they think the Church is in a dramatic crisis since 1962. Most will look at you like you have two heads.
I'm suggesting that the overwhelming majority of Catholics simply don't see the crisis that traditionalists see. So if we are to go about saying the Church is in crisis, we need to be aware that this is not at all obvious to 999 out of 1000 Catholics.

I would suggest that with dioceses going bankrupt and churches closing down (my mother lives in the archdiocese of Boston) they will become aware that there is a problem.

Will they make the connection to Vatican II? Probably not. They more than likely will settle for some party line explanation. It is up to that 1 in 1,000 to shout the truth from the rooftops.

[gbcdoj]

Liberals always claim this. The simple people are too dumb to understand doctrines written in plain language

Therefore, in that famous letter of his to the faithful of the Church at Meta, Our predecessor, Innocent III, quite wisely prescribes as follows: "In truth the secret mysteries of faith are not to be exposed to all everywhere, since they cannot be understood by all everywhere, but only by those who can grasp them with the intellect of faith. Therefore, to the more simple the Apostle says: "I gave you milk to drink as unto little ones in Christ, not meat". For solid food is the elders, as he said: "We speak wisdom . . . among the perfect"; "for I judged not myself to know anything among you, but Jesus Christ and Him Crucified". For so great is the depth of Divine Scripture that not only the simple and unlearned, but even the learned and prudent are not fully able to explore the understanding of it. (Pius VII, "Magno et acerbo", DZ 1605)

[k omalley]

I know that these stories of ecumenical abuses are anecdotal, but I did witness ecumenical abuses in the "Dreadful diocese."

I saw concelebration of the Mass with a Baptist minister and the priest gave the minister Communion right there on the altar. Likewise, I witnessed concelebration with a Lutheran minister and the Lutherans and Catholics split into two separate lines to go to Communion.

An ex-Catholic woman, now a Buddhist, gave the homily and invited everyone to come pray at her Buddhist prayer room. The priest gave her Communion! Why she even wanted to receive I do not understand.