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You're right A.B... it's pegged!! It's gonna blow!!! :-) |
Posted on 07/15/2004 6:17:56 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
This account has been banned or suspended. Okay |
"Isn't one mortal sin still good enough for condemnation to hell?"
Yes, of course. But, if the Mass is celebrated in a way that lessens the faith of the faithful, and it is locally, then what? When sharing facilities (altars, pews, etc) with protestants is accepted practice, when "lay ministers" are divorced, remarried, divorced and then remarried by protestant ministers with the advice and consent of the pastors involved, then what? You say most people aren't aware of the crisis, I say too many aren't even aware of the basics of the faith. Who to blame? The Ordinary is da boss, da buck stops there.
Given a choice, as an individual, I'd stay and fight. As the head of a household, my obligation is to protect the faith and morals of my family, a job impossible in the local NO mess in my opinion.
Explaining the contradictions to adults is one thing, to children another.
1. "Disobedience is always wrong, unless there is a good reason, and if it really is an emergency, then you should be prepared to take your lumps."
Nobody's saying we shouldn't take our lumps. But it would be dumb to let others keep hitting us over the head with abusive slurs and not fight back--especially if we're right. You yourself are slanderous in just that offensive way. You deserve to be put in your place. As for the Pope, he himself, in his own canon law, affirms the right of subordinates to correct superiors, even if this means the Pontiff--who may be just as wrong as other men.
2. "For the SSPX in particular, and more generally, those who are saying the Pope is an innovator, if they are serving God before the Church, that would require there to be a conflict between God and Church, so why would the approbation of the Pope or his approval be required or even desired?"
Nobody's looking for approbation. It was the Pope who sued for reconciliation and the SSPX which told him, in effect, "Not until you guys in Rome clean up your act!" But neither are traditionalists like myself willing to be told by those who have chased after the very novelties which are wrecking the Church that we who have predicted the present disasters all along, that we who have nevertheless clung to the doctrines of the Church in opposition to every radical revolutionary novelty, are the ones who are outside the Church. Like hell we are! If we call the Pope an innovator, it is because he is--dangerously so. He has brought his Church to the brink of chaos. He is answerable for this, not us.
3. "For lunatic Priests who somehow think mixing Eastern non-Christian faiths somehow improves Christianity, the Church has penalties as well, but abandoning the Church by Traditionalist faithful leaves those with the true Catholic Church in a lurch."
Do these lunatic priests include the Pope? He was the one who began all this at Assisi. Neither does he correct those who continue what he began.
4. "Let me put out a challenge in a parable to you who are on the SSPX fence or over it."
Your parable is insufferably stupid because it presumes traditionalists who resist the Pontiff have left the Church because of this. In fact, those who have abandoned the faith are not we. I ask you--who were the Catholics protesting Buddhists being invited to pray at our altars in a midwest city? Was it not traditionalists, led by the SSPX? And who were the Catholics protesting the Hindu priests using our altar at Fatima? Was it not again the SSPX? Have you heard a peep out of Rome or anywhere else regarding such abominations? If not, why not? Who are the true Catholics here, and who are not?
I'm afraid that you have totally missed the point. Those people weren't worshipping Buddha. They were having a Mass in a Buddhist temple. The statue of Buddha was already there, and they just set up a small table in front of it to use as an altar. And they all sat around on cushions on the floor to give it the Mass a "Zen" feeling.
The unfortunate fact is that this kind of syncretism and ecumenism IS very common and widespread. Virtually every parish in the US has at least 1 Sunday per year when they have interfaith services and exchange pulpits with protestant ministers. We all know about the Buddhists in the basilica in Grand Rapids and the Hindus in the shrine of Fatima. Just in the last few days here on FR there has been a story posted about a Trappist monk being made a Zen master.
No one claimed that these people were worshipping Buddha, simply that they were participating in the widespread indifferentism that affects virtually every member of the Catholic Church these days, starting from the top down.
"Our current crisis is a desire for a superior form of the Mass to be said more widely again, and an end to false ecumenism practiced by a small minority. Few seem aware of the problem's existence."
The crisis far transcends the liturgical issue alone! This is why the granting of the Indult alone will never suffice to quiet those who resist the revolution. Modernism affects every dogmatic truth, most especially the nature of Christ's sacrifice and the reality of Transubstantiation. In fact, there is not a single important Catholic dogma that is not being systematically undermined or subverted by the modernist heresy that grips the conciliar Church.
Seems to me when the Archbishop warned of disaster, he was the one who was right, and when the popes promised us a springtime, they were the ones who were wrong. --Or doesn't common sense count for anything anymore? Is truth in your mind just a matter of which man has the higher rank on the ecclesiastical ladder?
The hypocrisy is mind-boggling. Pope Paul VI, the man who inherited a Catholic Church organization at the very pinnacle of every measure of success in 1963, and who died 15 years later leaving behind him a Church that was a shattered wreck, morally bereft, decimated in numbers, gutted of all devotion, the altars jackhammered, the churches pillaged, the convents empty, the seminaries sold, and the most glorious patrimony of all, the traditional Catholic Mass of all time, suppressed with the zeal of bolshevik secret police. And this man has the effrontery to accuse Archbishop Lefebvre of "inflicting wounds"!
I try to be charitable and to assume that Paul VI did all this unwittingly, that he was merely the most stupendously incompetent pope in the history of the Church. But it is so difficult to believe that in the face of so much evidence of his malice and his animus delendi, his desire to destroy the Roman Catholic Church.
Since the SSPX never left the Church, its rights are still in force. As for the validity of SSPX bishops--even Rome admits they are valid. You really need to get a grip. Your hate is making you talk tripe.
"The Pope did not leave the Church. The Pope is the head of the Church, and he declared the SSPX is not in the Church. He binds those on Earth."
The Pope was in error. He contradicted his own papal law which granted the Archbishop and the newly consecrated bishops all the canonical coverage they needed to consecrate in a time of necessity. The Pope mistakenly--or willfully--ignored his own canons. He owes the SSPX one of his famous apologies.
Sorry. But there's a war going on. These posts reflect this.
And yet, I've never witnessed this. I've never heard of this (until this instant). Virtually every parish??? BS!
But it is so difficult to believe that in the face of so much evidence of his malice and his animus delendi, his desire to destroy the Roman Catholic Church.
"...We invite you to retract, to correct yourself and to cease from inflicting wounds upon the church of Christ". The most powerful part.
In science, the ability to predict what will happen is considered proof of validity. For example, Einstein was able to predict certain events that could be measured when Mercury passed in front of the Sun in some particular way. The event was then recorded and measured, and his theory was proven either true or false.
Same thing with economics. If your theory is valid, then you should be able to tell us what's going to happen. There are certain economists who are wrong virtually every time, yet they keep making false predictions. But smart people only invest with the ones who get it right.
The content of the Catholic Faith is not a question of science or economics, but the status of the Church today is just such a question. Those who are able to analyze the current situation the most accurately are the ones who will be able to predict what will occur in the future.
For the past 25 years we have Archbishop Lefebvre being 100% right and Pope John Paul II being 100% wrong. One said that the Church was becoming apostate and the other said that the Church was entering a new springtime. Now JPII has come out 25 years later and agreed with what Lefebvre said back in the seventies -- JPII now admits that we have reached a stage of "silent apostasy."
The future will continue to tell who was right and who was wrong. But it will only be able to give us a witness to the Truth if we are willing to listen. If we shut our eyes and ears to the thousands of voices that are all proclaiming a deepening crisis, the information won't do any good.
Let's see what happens in the next 10 years. The defenders of the regime of novelty claim that we have had 40 years of catastrophe, but that we are just about to turn the corner. Kind of like the CEO of company that has lost money every year for the past 40 years, but at each annual meeting he claims that the tide has turned and next year will be the year when it all pays off. Or a sports team that have been perennial cellar dwellers for 40 years in a row, but the management always has their "Next year" speech ready for the fans. Let's see if "next year" really comes. Will we see a revival of Catholic devotion in 2005? or in 2006? or in 2010? When will some people open their eyes and finally decide that enough is enough?
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You're right A.B... it's pegged!! It's gonna blow!!! :-) |
Paul VI inflicted more wounds upon the Catholic Church than any pope or bishop in history. Look at his "fruits".
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