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To: Alamo-Girl; Cvengr
Excellent points A-G:

But concerning the doctrine of "once saved, always saved" I believe the Scriptures are clear that Christ will let nothing come between Him and a believer. However, I am also compelled that every believer has free will which God will respect and thus a person can, of his own free will, reject Jesus to his eternal peril. (Hebrews 10:29)
As you know, I do not believe in the "onces saved, always saved" doctrine. But it is important to note than people have free will, and choose at their own peril.

However, I do not believe this is easily done. Things originating from such as a bad dream, a temper tantrum, anger in grief would not be the same as a free will decision. The Spirit knows the thoughts and intents of the heart even if we do not.

Excellent point. Personally, I do believe there is such a thing as assurance of salvation, and an individual can be assured of their salvation through the witness of the Holy Spirit, and the abscense of a heart that condemns them.

But assurance is not the same thing as "once saved, always saved." Such a belief is impossible to prove with scripture, and goes way beyond the bounds of good theology. Stating that a person is "always saved" is the same thing as stating that they are saved unconditionally. There is clearly no precedent for unconditional salvation.

Jesus and the apostles take great pains to communicate to us that salvation is conditional on the life we lead after the point of salvation.

However, it's not that hard to live a life that's pleasing to God, if you so desire. That's why God has sent us the Holy Spirit, to help us "win the prize," so to speak. God does not leave us to figure out salavation on our own, but sends help by means of the church, the Holy Spirit, and the Word of Truth to guide us.

64 posted on 05/31/2004 1:48:01 PM PDT by Ronzo (GOD bless all those families who lost a loved while serving in the American Armed Forces.)
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To: Ronzo

Postsalvation sin will not remove us from the love of God. We don't get away with sin, because sin after salvation merely results in our loss of some of our inheritance,...not salvation.

Salvation is merely from an eternal separation from God in the lake of Fire,...which is significant in and off itself, but there is absolutely nothing we can do to trump the faith of Christ on the cross. He is already resurrected and partly glorified in heaven. Just as His faith resulted in that resurrection even after ALL sins of mankind were imputed upon Him and judged, any man also having faith in Him will have eternal life.

If that eternal life is perishable, then God is no longer faithful or deserving faith of having died as a substitutionary atonement for all sin. This is what many Calvinists would like fellow believers to agree with because they seek for others to feel sorry for themselves.

Salvation has nothing to do with feeling sorry for oneself. It's purely dependent upon faith in Him.


66 posted on 05/31/2004 9:43:15 PM PDT by Cvengr (;^))
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To: Alamo-Girl; Cvengr
However, it's not that hard to live a life that's pleasing to God, if you so desire. That's why God has sent us the Holy Spirit, to help us "win the prize," so to speak. God does not leave us to figure out salavation on our own, but sends help by means of the church, the Holy Spirit, and the Word of Truth to guide us.

Re-reading this, I forgot to mention the most important point of all: if we do sin, as we try to live a life pleasing to God, we can count on their being forgiveness, thanks to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross!

Clearly, you can't "lose" your salvation like losing your car keys! You have to choose to deny Jesus, and then go off on some other path. Losing your salvation is not an accidental affair, but a deliberate choice.

For those of us who choose Jesus, and do so day after day, no matter life's circumstances, they can be fully assured that they will be in eternity with Him.

But for those who initially accept the Good News, but then turn away from Jesus because of the difficulties and sufferings inherent in life, they should not expect to find themselves in paradise. Nor do I think they would want to be there, for they would have to be with someone they had decided they didn't want anything to do with: Jesus himself.

75 posted on 06/02/2004 1:18:40 AM PDT by Ronzo (GOD bless all those families who lost a loved while serving in the American Armed Forces.)
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