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To: Ronzo; betty boop; marron; Diamond; Thermopylae
For the discussion, here is what I posted on the nature/nurture thread:

Thank you so very much for the opportunity to speak a little of the Holy Spirit. How I love to talk about Him! IMHO, the best Scriptures to understand the Holy Spirit are the entire Gospel of John, Romans 8 and I Corinthians 2.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. – John 1:12-13

The story of Nicodemus in John 3 is the example. He was a religious man, a ruler and a Pharisee, and approached Christ saying that He was special because of the miracles. Jesus, looking right into his heart knew what he really wanted to know and told him that “he must be born again” and proceeded to answer Nicodemus’ questions.

Then in John 15, Jesus describes the indwelling further explaining that He (Jesus) is the vine and we are the branches, that we can do nothing apart from Him. We must dwell in Him and He in us. At the end of that chapter and in the next, He explains that when He leaves to go to the Father, He will send the Comforter (Holy Spirit):

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: - John 15:26

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. – John 16:7

BTW, this is an example of the Trinity - God in three persons.

But of everything the Gospel of John has to say of the Holy Spirit and the mystery of the Trinity, the most overwhelming to me is in John 17 where Christ prays for us and explains the significance:

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. – John 17:20-23

All of these passages are rich and should be read fully and in context. I do them a disservice by just making a few excerpts, but I didn’t wish to swamp the thread either.

In Paul’s testimony we can see the ministry of the indwelling Spirit:

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. – I Corinthians 2:9-16

All of this takes us full circle to Nicodemus – that a Christian must be born again:

[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. – Romans 8:1-5

And here are a few additional observations I just posted on the devotion thread:

When the person of the Holy Spirit is named as “Spirit” the word is capitalized both in the Old Testament and the New. References to the “Holy Ghost” are always capitalized. Likewise, the term “Comforter” is capitalized in the New Testament. But the name “Holy Spirit” is capitalized only in this passage which says that we may ask for the Holy Spirit and the Father will give Him to us:

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? - Luke 11:13

Conversely, it is possible to quench the Spirit:

Quench not the Spirit. – 1 Thessalonians 5:19

In these passages, the Spirit in heaven appears as seven fold:

John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; - Revelation 1:4

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. – Revelation 3:1

And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. – Revelation 4:7

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. – Revelation 5:6

I believe the above passages suggest (especially the last one) that God is One as described in John 17, that His persons include the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit but that there does not exist a “bright line” between them. We cannot tell where the Father ends and the Son begins because the Son is that fully surrendered to the Father. Likewise, we cannot tell where the Son ends and the Holy Spirit begins because the Holy Spirit is fully surrendered as well. And in all seven manifestations of the Spirit, we cannot tell where the one ends and the next begins.

An interesting discussion might be whether the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, is one of the seven or the sum.

As a sidebar comment, the term spirit (not capitalized) is also a name for ministering angels:

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. – Hebrews 1:6-8

But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? - Hebrews 1:13-14

So we who are born again have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Holy Ghost as described throughout the Gospel of John (especially chapters 3, 15, 16, 17) Romans 8 and 1 Corinthians 2 --- and we also have the help of ministering spirits. Only the Holy Spirit indwells.


4 posted on 05/27/2004 10:28:44 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Ronzo; betty boop; marron; Diamond; Thermopylae
A few other thoughts about the Holy Spirit...

These are passages that cause me to believe that we who have the indwelling Spirit will be raptured in advance of the Great Tribulation.

In this passage, I believe that the Holy Spirit is the one whose presence prevents the anti-Christ/false prophet from being revealed (emphasis mine):

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: - 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

And in this passage, I believe the oil in the lamp is a metaphor for the indwelling Holy Spirit:

Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish. They that [were] foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 25:1-13

The final one is in Revelation 5, when the Great Tribulation begins. The Spirit is in Christ's eyes as the judgment begins. In the previous chapters, the Spirit is before the throne of God. IOW, it is as if the Holy Spirit is taken back up (and us with Him) before the judgment begins.

5 posted on 05/27/2004 10:51:37 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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