Replies

This is a reply to a related but contentious discussion from the devotional thread at post 28 over there. I brought it here because contention does not belong on a devotion:

AG , this is not about searching the scripture to confirm some secret personal revelation . This is clearly speaking to the Bereans searching the Jewish Canon for evidence that the Gospel being presented to them by the disciples was indeed prophesied.

I respectfully assert that the passage is relevant to us today. To the Bereans, it would indeed be “searching the scripture to confirm some secret personal revelation.” The Scripture known to them at the time contained less than what is Scripture to us today. But we are following their “noble” footsteps when we receive “the word with all readiness of mind” and search “the scriptures daily, whether those things” are so.

This is not about personal revelation AG it is about their inability to hear or see the evidence of Christ through the clear witness sent by God.

Again, I respectfully disagree. Christ said the reason they did not believe is that they “have not his word abiding in you”. So He told them to “search the scriptures” because they believed in them. It is very much a personal revelation when the word abides in us.

This again is not saying that there is any further personal revelation.. you are reading things into the word to defend your position

Again, I respectfully disagree. The revelation in Daniel 12:4 was personal, it was to Daniel. The revelation in Revelation 10:4 was personal, it was to John.

What was with held and why ? Most agree that what was withheld was a sight so terrible that believers could become fearful instead of hopeful, not some personal secret revelation

Then I do not share the majority view. Then again, perfect love casts out all fear.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. – 1 John 4:18

You continued…

But neither of these scriptures that you have chosen to link together (even though they actually cover different topics ) in any way hint that there is any further personal revelation that will come short of the time we stand in Glory and see Him face to face.

I couldn’t possibly disagree with you more. My entire walk with Christ for the last 44 years has been an ongoing personal revelation through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Prophesy is not simply foresight, it is also insight. The Holy Spirit is alive and well on the planet earth:

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. – Acts 2:17-21

Now that does not mean to say that every time someone professes to have a special insight or foresight that it is Truth, i.e. from God. The discernment of Truth is the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Searching the Scriptures can only take a believer so far. The Word, the Truth, lives within you and confirms or rejects what you hear and read:

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. – John 14:16-17

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. – John 16:13-15

Your next remark sheds much Light on the difference between us:

It is an interesting observation that this chapter actually says that the spiritual gifts of the early church will disappear , that what will remain is faith ,hope and charity

Evidently you believe that spiritual gifts disappeared with the early church. And yet I am the happy recipient of many such gifts of the Spirit and know Him to be very much alive and gift giving in this age.

AG do you know what Gnosticism is ?

It is a catch-all term used by many doctrines to condemn perceived heresies. The history of the term is most informative. But in common usage it only amounts to a pejorative.

You conclude:

There is a very fine line between the illumination of the Holy Spirit on scripture as we read and the seeking and the belief in personal revelation that somehow completes the word of God . We must be very careful not to fall into that heresy.

Again, we differ on the Word of God. You see the “word of God” as the written Scriptures. As I explained in post 21, I know the Word of God personally. He is alive from the beginning to the end; He is Jesus Christ. He indwells in the person of the Holy Spirit. Certainly, it is impossible for any mortal to “complete the word of God” – He is God!

But more to the point of whole discussion, you are rightfully concerned about people like Joseph Smith, the Pope, Jim Jones and many others who declare to have a personal revelation from God, the only true doctrine and compel others to follow their leader.

But I would put anyone who asks others to follow himself or his private revelation rather than God in exactly the same bucket and that is why I eschew all doctrine and traditions of men – including Calvin and Arminius and seemingly neverending authorities and commentators.

I assert that we must focus utterly on the Great Commandments – to love God absolutely and everyone else unconditionally. We must let nothing whatsoever obscure our view of God. No doctrine, tradition, authority or mortal must get in between unless the Father personally establishes it which He did in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.

Again, we differ on the Word of God. You see the “word of God” as the written Scriptures. As I explained in post 21, I know the Word of God personally. He is alive from the beginning to the end; He is Jesus Christ. He indwells in the person of the Holy Spirit. Certainly, it is impossible for any mortal to “complete the word of God” – He is God!
But more to the point of whole discussion, you are rightfully concerned about people like Joseph Smith, the Pope, Jim Jones and many others who declare to have a personal revelation from God, the only true doctrine and compel others to follow their leader.

Protestants believe in the sufficiency of scripture.

But I would put anyone who asks others to follow himself or his private revelation rather than God in exactly the same bucket and that is why I eschew all doctrine and traditions of men – including Calvin and Arminius and seemingly neverending authorities and commentators.

Neither man taught or believed in "personal revelation" or took their doctrine from that . Both men were scholars that drew their doctrine from scripture . That was a part of the issues that the reformers had with Rome..

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. – John 16:13-15

This is not a promise of 'PERSONAL Revelation' It is a promise of Illumination .I have to honest AG , what I have read in the last couple of days sounds like gnosticism

But more to the point of whole discussion, you are rightfully concerned about people like Joseph Smith, the Pope, Jim Jones and many others who declare to have a personal revelation from God, the only true doctrine and compel others to follow their leader.
But I would put anyone who asks others to follow himself or his private revelation rather than God in exactly the same bucket and that is why I eschew all doctrine and traditions of men – including Calvin and Arminius and seemingly neverending authorities and commentators.

I assert that we must focus utterly on the Great Commandments – to love God absolutely and everyone else unconditionally. We must let nothing whatsoever obscure our view of God. No doctrine, tradition, authority or mortal must get in between unless the Father personally establishes it which He did in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.

1-The Lord tells us to try all spirits to see if they be of him.

2-The Lord is consistant same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Now many believe that it is every mam for himself which is confussion! will there NOT be Orderly giudance for those who are HIS? I do not believe as the deist we are on our own!

3-Does not the Lord leads through prophets and his annoited ones who are called as was Aaron. (Amos 3:8;Heb.5:4)

Amos 3
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Hebrews 13
1 LET brotherly love continue.

2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Heb. 5
Ministers must be called of God as was Aaron—Christ was a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek—Jesus Christ is the author of eternal salvation.

1 FOR every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.

4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

EX.28
1 AND take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron’s sons.

2 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty.

3 And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron’s garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office.

4 And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office.

I believe there is structure and a pattern that is of the Lord. I believe there is a firm foundation, a restoration which was promised, and if you study each dispensation you will see there was instructions from the Lord which the previous generation did NOT have for did not relate to their circumstans, but to each dispensation the WORDS of the Lord is given to enable those to get through the mind fields. The Lord reveals according to our needs to know.

Your #20: [Gnosticism] is a catch-all term used by many doctrines to condemn perceived heresies.

There are people in this world who seem to address every disagreement with their religious views by claiming that it is rooted in heresy somehow, and they always seem to imply that the other guy is the heretic. It is a way of insisting on conformity with their views.

Jesus does not work this way. Nor does the Holy Spirit. Nor did the ancient apostles.

We should instead, as you have also encouraged, exhort all to come to Christ, receive those He has sent, follow His example in meekness, humility, and kindness, and let His light shine through us.

Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear [also translated "reverence"]:

Thanks for all your good posts and your fine example in this regard!

But I would put anyone who asks others to follow himself or his private revelation rather than God in exactly the same bucket and that is why I eschew all doctrine and traditions of men – including Calvin and Arminius and seemingly neverending authorities and commentators.

Amen to that! So often doctrines, traditions, and even systems of theology takes us further away from the truth, rather than help us understand it more!

I assert that we must focus utterly on the Great Commandments – to love God absolutely and everyone else unconditionally. We must let nothing whatsoever obscure our view of God. No doctrine, tradition, authority or mortal must get in between unless the Father personally establishes it which He did in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.

Yes! How true! So many of us settle for a relationship with doctines, traditions, and systems rather than the person of Jesus Christ! A poor substitute IMHO...

This is an EXCELLENT discussion.

Again, we differ on the Word of God. You see the “word of God” as the written Scriptures. As I explained in post 21, I know the Word of God personally. He is alive from the beginning to the end; He is Jesus Christ. He indwells in the person of the Holy Spirit. Certainly, it is impossible for any mortal to “complete the word of God” – He is God! Ahhh, it is so refreshing to hear someone say this. Most do see "the Word" as what is just written on paper. The Word is Jesus and He is alive and doing great things. AG, this comment got me happy this morning, lol.