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To: pascendi
I know a couple whopper infallible declarations that would make your head spin trying to lend your assent to them without, well, really lending your assent to them. We could squeeze the heresy thing for all it's worth. Would you like to see a few?

What are these?

179 posted on 04/11/2004 5:35:32 AM PDT by gbcdoj (in mundo pressuram habetis, sed confidite, ego vici mundum)
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To: gbcdoj
"LG 25 states that only the definitions of a Council are infallible."

No it doesn't.
180 posted on 04/11/2004 8:03:39 AM PDT by pascendi
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To: gbcdoj
"What are these?"

Here's a good one:

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." Pope Boniface 8 in the Bull Unam Sanctam.

This one does wonders for what passes for ecumenism in our age.

But it demands absolute assent from every Catholic. It's infallible because it clearly pronounces, defines, or declares something to be the case. All infallible statements contain this wording. Even the declaration of Vatican I contained it:

"Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our saviour, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the sacred council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman pontiff speaks Ex Cathedra, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable. So then, should anyone, which God forbid, have the temerity to reject this definition of ours: let him be anathema."

Note that it doesn't have to be declared within an ecumenical council. The pope can speak infallibly by his lonesome if he wishes, outside a council.

The documents of Vatican II contain no such wording. If someone assumes it does, produce it. Show that the wording is expressed within infallible form.

The documents of Vatican II contain many restatements of known doctrine; where it does so, requires the assent of the faithful. But this is nothing new.
182 posted on 04/11/2004 8:24:36 AM PDT by pascendi
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