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To: GirlShortstop
The citation from Lumen Gentium is essentially descriptive. It is describing the authoritive nature of the Church's Magisterium. But you should realize such authority can only be exercised under certain conditions. Only dogmatic statements made by the Council would be guaranteed Divine protection and be considered infallible and therefore binding on the faithful. This is important to note because Vatican II explicitly excepted its own documents from being considered dogmatic and binding, notwithstanding the word "dogmatic" used in some document titles. The Council fathers wished to offer pastoral guidance only, and therefore nothing they said was actually either binding or infallible.

But if you think something the Council said IS infallible teaching--then it would be incumbent on you to tell the rest of us what you believe had suddenly been made binding on all Catholics. Name, if you will, the specific dogmatic teaching. Remember, we're not talking about dogmas already declared by previous popes or councils which may have been merely repeated by the bishops in the documents. We're talking about a newly declared doctrine that is suddenly made binding on all the faithful. It would be very strange to claim the Council had made such a pronouncement yet not be able to come up with a specific teaching that qualifies. Yet nobody ever does. Nor will you be able to do so, since no dogma was ever specifically pronounced by Vatican II.

104 posted on 04/06/2004 5:34:50 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
...the Council fathers wished to offer pastoral guidance only, and therefore nothing they said was actually either binding or infallible.

"In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent.  This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra..."

ultima, I will NEVER see how you can adhere to your line of thought.  Thank you for the courtesy of a reply nonetheless.
FReegards.
115 posted on 04/07/2004 5:14:18 AM PDT by GirlShortstop
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