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To: CindyDawg; RnMomof7
The Augustine taught it , and Luther a student of Augustine taught it . It is called "Calvinism" is ONLY AS A NICK NAME Calvin was the first man to sit down and write a "Systematic Theology ". So the doctrines of Grace are often called buy his name.

BAH! It's called "Calvinism" because "Bucerism" would drive converts away (it sounds too much like a disease).

And Augustine was no Calvinist. Like Paul, his words (like his practices) are cherry-picked to show only one side of the coin.

4,536 posted on 04/15/2004 6:36:21 PM PDT by IMRight
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To: IMRight; CindyDawg; RnMomof7; Dr. Eckleburg
And Augustine was no Calvinist.

I'll let you in on a deep, dark secret of mine if you don't share it with my Reform friends. Apart from the TULIP and a few articles by Calvin, I have read almost exclusively from Augustine. I think you would find that he's more Calvinist than you give him credit for.

4,637 posted on 04/16/2004 4:17:44 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: IMRight
And Augustine was no Calvinist. Like Paul, his words (like his practices) are cherry-picked to show only one side of the coin.

Luther was an Augustinian monk , and Luther was a predestiniarian

I invite you into the challenge . I have posted a scripture in context for Cindy . I now invite you to disprove what I believe by posting scriptures that up hold your position that we "cherry pick " Paul

My scripture for you

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Eph 1:2 Grace [be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he (the father) hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Eph 1:19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Eph 1:22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,

Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Clearly stated we are predestined. God chose us before the foundation of the world, He predestined us to be His by His will not ours .

Your turn , in context scriptures of Paul that teach men elect God

4,699 posted on 04/16/2004 8:53:55 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: IMRight; CindyDawg
And Augustine was no Calvinist.

That's true. His writings have been cherry picked by the Protestants and the RC's.

Most likely he'd be a Biblical Unitarian today. ;-)

4,704 posted on 04/16/2004 9:04:49 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian?)
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