Replies

I meant to add, that because of His Grace in calling us, He DOES get all the glory for our salvation.

The Calvinists seem to be saying that we who believe in Freewill are robbing God of the glory of our salvation, and giving the credit to ourselves. That is totaly false. Without His calling none of us would have found Him. IMO:)

Becky

4,361 posted on 04/15/2004 7:06:43 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain (Proud member of the Lunatic Fringe, we love Spam, Uzi's and Jesus)

To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain; SoothingDave

The Calvinists seem to be saying that we who believe in Freewill are robbing God of the glory of our salvation, and giving the credit to ourselves. That is totaly false. Without His calling none of us would have found Him.

I agree.

Atheism, in this context, is basically denial of this need. It's a psychological construct, a defense mechanism.

I read a case-study once, of several famous atheists. One thing they all had in common was some sort of severe conflict with their (human) father. I'm not saying this would necessarily be true of all atheists, but it does suggest a psychological element at play.

4,364 posted on 04/15/2004 7:21:35 AM PDT by malakhi

To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain

4,372 posted on 04/15/2004 7:55:22 AM PDT by malakhi

To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain

The shepherd goes and finds his lost sheep , they do not find them , He finds them. Calvinists believe in free will . BUT we believe that man will only do what he wills to do. He will never CHOOSE to repent and make Jesus Lord. He can not and will not do that because he is dead to God. God has to "quicken those that are DEAD in sin and trespasses ", before they can "see the kingdom of God" and desire to repent and make Christ Lord.

The problem with theology that says one needs to CHOOSE Christ before you are saved is evident. It means
1) It was not finished at the cross . That the cross saves no one . man chooses to save himself

The order of salvation is . The cross + mans will + mans decision =salvation. So the cross alone is completely useless and meaningless . It means that the "means of salvation " ordained of God before the foundation of the world,could not have saved anyone. It might have been a waste of Gods time.

2) It means that God has no" free will", it means He is completely bound and subject to His "subjects " (So just who is sovereign here? The creator or the created? )

" Is there any thing too hard for God " the scripture asks . The scripture also says the word of God ALWAYS accomplishes what God INTENDS for it to do. So either God desires to save all or not. If He does not then we need to ask why he can not do that and why the scripture lies when it says it always accomplishes what He desires.

I think a scripture search will reveal there is not ONE SCRIPTURE that tells us we should "choose Christ" , but there are many scriptures that tell us He chooses us .

Psa 65:4 Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple

Vince is no help in the search for the truth of Christ Becky .

4,389 posted on 04/15/2004 9:13:13 AM PDT by RnMomof7

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