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To: ksen
Unless you want to deny the Omniscience of God then you have the same "problem" to answer.

Well, not really. I don't try to present a completely fogured out system. I acknowledge there is mystery involved. Involving how our free will works out to acheive God's goals.

What I do not do is deny that we have a free will. Everyone I believe God puts in hell has made free, truly free choices that have resulted in that.

I believe God somehow allows us to be truly free. I can't explain it. But to make God the decider of everything is to make God responsible for sin and death and for the unjust damnatino of people who are only doing God's will and being the creatures God made them to be.

If God knew who would and would not be saved, or however you want to say it, and created the world anyway....then who, really, is doing what God did not intend for them to do?

It's simply a different perspective. To make God's will the overriding principle is to rob all of us of any responsibility. If you would only admit that men have a capacity to do good or evil, than your problems would go away.

SD

3,938 posted on 04/13/2004 10:07:01 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave; HarleyD
Well, not really. I don't try to present a completely fogured out system. I acknowledge there is mystery involved. Involving how our free will works out to acheive God's goals.

There is no mystery here Dave, either God knows or He doesn't. If He does know than you have the same problem you accuse us Calvinists of having.

If you say He doesn't know, well, you have bigger problems and the Office for the Propagation of the Faith may be knocking on your door someday. ;^)

What I do not do is deny that we have a free will. Everyone I believe God puts in hell has made free, truly free choices that have resulted in that.

I believe God somehow allows us to be truly free. I can't explain it. But to make God the decider of everything is to make God responsible for sin and death and for the unjust damnatino of people who are only doing God's will and being the creatures God made them to be.

I don't think you will find a single Calvinist on this thread that disagrees with you. Those who end up in Hell end up there of their own Free Will. Those who end up with God in Eternity do so of their own Free Will.

The only difference between the two is God's Grace. On one undeserving group He bestowed Grace. On the other undeserving group He did not bestow Grace.

It's simply a different perspective. To make God's will the overriding principle is to rob all of us of any responsibility. If you would only admit that men have a capacity to do good or evil, than your problems would go away.

I can't admit that Dave, remember that verse about "whatsoever is not of faith is sin?" The unsaved can never do good. Well, they can never do anything that God would consider good. I'm sure they can do lots of stuff that we would consider good.

Remember the rich, young ruler? He called Jesus "Good Master." Then Jesus told him that only God is good. The young ruler had kept most of the commandments and yet he still wasn't considered good, why do you think that was?

3,963 posted on 04/13/2004 10:56:58 AM PDT by ksen (This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!)
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