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To: RochesterFan
You obviously have not heard the monogistic argument concerning theodicy - (the problem of evil). Briefly, the argument goes as follows: God decrees all that happens and in doing so has only pure motives. Men carry out that plan, often with wicked motives of their own. The two best examples are the slavery of Joseph (see Gen 50:19ff) and the death of Christ on Calvary. In both cases, God's plans are entirely holy, righteous, and just: many are saved as a result. The men who carried out God's plan were wicked and sinful and unwittingly did the will of God for their own sinful reasons. It is for those reasons that htey are judged. A third example is the use of the nations to judge Israel. They accomplished God's purpose in judging israel but committed sin in doing so because of their heart. Accordingly, they were judged. The result is that a holy God is sovereign over all and is not yet the author of evil.

How is it that the motives of these evildoers are judged, if not according to a standard of obedience to God? What is sin? Are we not to do what God wants us to do? If men do what God wants, how can this be wrong?

This is so much nonsense.

Regardless, you haven't addresed the basic idea. God, (the sovereign, remember?) created existence in such a way that certain people end up in hell. He chose this. And now you say that even if these condemned men do exactly what God wants, they are still evil because of their motives? Well, isn't god sovereign? From where outside of creation did these men get their motives? Are they free to decide what to do and what motives to have or is God sovereign?

if God is still sovereign, which seems to be your high holy point, then you still have the same problem.

It is systemic.

SD

3,883 posted on 04/13/2004 6:40:33 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
SD, just because you don't like the idea does not negate that it is clearly taught in the Scriptures. Go read Gen 50. Were Joseph's brothers following God's plan when they sold Joseph into slavery in Egypt? Was God surprised by anything? Did Joseph's brothers sin? What were Joseph's conclusions, recorded by the Holy Spirit: "you intended it for evil but God intended it for good, for the saving of many lives."

What about the men who crucified Christ according to the predetermined plan of the Father? Was God surprised by Calvary? Did God sin when he did not spare His own son? Absolutely not. Did the men who held an illegal trial with false witnesses sin? Of course they did.

What about the nations God used to judge Israel? On what basis did He later judge them?

4,075 posted on 04/13/2004 3:37:46 PM PDT by RochesterFan
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