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To: malakhi; RnMomof7
I totally agree. This would seem to be contrary to the Calvinist position, though.

On the contrary. Calvinists would say that Judas was foreknown and predestined to betray our Lord Jesus.

It is more contrary to a "free will" belief which would say Judas had a choice, he just made the wrong one.

Please remember Jesus himself said that have I not chosen you and yet one of you are a devil. If Judas hadn't already made the choice I wonder how Jesus knew which choice Judas would make?

2,879 posted on 04/09/2004 12:09:30 PM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: HarleyD
Calvinists would say that Judas was foreknown and predestined to betray our Lord Jesus.

Yes, that's what I said.

2,882 posted on 04/09/2004 12:16:58 PM PDT by malakhi (L'shana haba'ah b'Yerushalayim!)
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To: HarleyD; RnMomof7; ksen
It is more contrary to a "free will" belief which would say Judas had a choice, he just made the wrong one.

How about that?! According to the "free will"ers, the entire salvation of the whole world - wrought as it was by Jesus' crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension - was wholly dependent on Judas Iscariot's sovereignly free will - and dependent on Judas making a poor choice with that free will. Why, if only Jesus had acted "more Christlike" to Judas in those three years, maybe He would have lived to a ripe old age! This whole Jesus-getting-crucified thing was a fluke! We should petition Mel Gibson to rename his movie The Accident of The Christ

. Forget this whole "from the foundation of the world" stuff - God actually gambled the redemption of ALL of Creation, including Jesus' incarnation, ministry, and crucifixion, on one man's exercising bad judgement during a single week of human history, even after that man was exposed to Jesus for three years. I didn't know God gambled. Maybe God had to instruct Jesus to "really piss off Judas during Passover Week" just to set the die in motion.

2,887 posted on 04/09/2004 12:31:50 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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