Archdiocese has active, engaged laity (Archbishop Burke article)

St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | January 25, 2004 | Patricia Rice

[Desdemona]

More lay persons lead archdiocesan departments, agencies and schools than ever before, while the number of diocesan priests is the lowest in more than a century.

This year, members of the archdiocese face the consolidation or closure of more parishes, especially those in south St. Louis and northeast St. Louis County.

[Desdemona]

Do you have any thoughts about the priests they did interview?I would bet they are somewhat dissident,or at least not orthodox.

St. Cronan is the local revolutionary parish. Their pastor was interviewd. None of the people who belong there, actually live in the parish boundries. Most of them are suburbanites who travel into this slice of no man's land between the highways in the city to hear their thoughts confirmed. Most of them left the reservation long ago and don't realize it.

Msgr. Delaney had been head of the seminary and is now pastor at St. John the Evangelist downtown. (Essentially a demotion) He's not really one of the more warm people around either.

What this article doesn't mention, is that demographically, younger people are moving back into the city.

We had weather last night, so I need to run. I'll be back later.

[Desdemona]

Of course the article does not mention the St Louis Archdiocese ordained 8 men to the priesthood last year and has been fairly sucessful in recruitment.

Lately, exactly.

[sinkspur]

If I am right then this pride in having such a high per centage of Catholic school educated church members,is not anything that augers well for the Church.

Right. We want dumb Catholics who'll do whatever they're told, including assisting bishops in covering up for sexual abusers.

[Desdemona]

What May had, that Rigali doesn't exactly, was a visibility. Rigali was gone a lot. May wasn't. What people around here don't always appreciate is that sometimes in order to move ahead, we need help from other quarters. Rigali saw some of the ridiculousness in expenditures and wasn't sentimental about cutting and that's what a lot of people here resent.

[american colleen]

That response wasn't right. You took it right out of context. --- the statement was made in light of the fact that catechisis was very poor in that diocese and so having "catholic school educated members" is not necessarily a plus.

[american colleen]

We want dumb Catholics who'll do whatever they're told, including assisting bishops in covering up for sexual abusers.

That would be the lawyers, the various da's, some clergy and the insurance agencies?

[Desdemona]

I like the effort to bury anything but spirit of vatII bishops,no mention is made of at least 20 years worth of bishops,only Ritter and May make it through their process.Did you not receive your catechesis under the reign of May?

Ritter was pre-Vatican II. His presence is legendary around here. There's a high school named for him (that's usually a sign of respect in these parts). His successor was John Joseph Cardinal Carberry, who actually outlived May. He was 97 when he died. He was a very good man, but not a particularly strong one. It was under his tenure that my original "catechesis" was formed.

In May's first years here, we lived away. My father's job took us to another place. When we came back, it was time for me to go to high school and, yes, that part of my education was under May. He, like the bishops before him, did emphasize sending children to Catholic schools, but he also had to close a high school. So did Rigali, actually. Carberry closed at least five.

Yes, the article is very one sided. There is no mention of the Latin Mass movement or the number of young couples having 4-8 children. I see them a lot. I think Pat interviewed her contacts and didn't look any farther.

[ArrogantBustard]

More lay persons lead archdiocesan departments, agencies and schools than ever before, while the number of diocesan priests is the lowest in more than a century.

They say that like it's a good thing. In fact, it's a damning indictment of the incompetence of the vocations director(s) over the last decade or three.

[ArrogantBustard]

I was surprised that he would not be considered pastoral

Then you haven't learnt to decipher newspeak. "Pastoral" describes a bishop or priest who "listens" to all the fad-driven, trendy leftists, and supports "reproductive rights", "birth-control", priestesses, liturgical experimentation, barren churches, "inclusive" language, re-interpretation of Scripture, etc. To be orthodox is to be unpastoral. To be pastoral is to tolerate heresy, if not to be an outright heretic oneself.

[Desdemona]

Upon his installation, there was a piece in the Catholic Standard about his "close friendship with Cardianal Mahoney".

Huh? That wasn't the impression I got.

The other thing that scares me is he has refused to say homosexuals are unfit for the priesthood, and I'm afraid he will lift the ban from St. Charles Seminary.

Since that was enforced big time in the last few years at Kennrick-Glennon, I wouldn't worry about it.

[RobbyS]

I have been spooked by the crisis in the Episcopal Church, so that now I can hardly look a Priest without wondering: is he one? Until the bishops speak out firmly and definitely, absolutely afforming that homosexuals ought not to be priests, I will continued to think this way.

[RobbyS]

"Geneflection to the spirit of the age?" Who said this?

[ArrogantBustard]

Don't know ... But I suspect that the "spirit of the age" is one to whom I would say "May God rebuke thee!!!"

[RobbyS]

Mel Gibson caught it as only an artist can: It is someone who to first appearance is beautiful and as you look it, the surface shifts and beneath, something else. Only a glimpse, but enough to know.

[Tantumergo]

"the statement was made in light of the fact that catechisis was very poor in that diocese and so having "catholic school educated members" is not necessarily a plus."

Surveys have been done in the UK to compare lapsation rate between kids who go through the Catholic school system and kids in the state sector.

Whereas in the state sector 33% are still practicing by the age of 16, in the Catholic sector only 8% (yes eight per cent!!) are still practicing.

In my experience Catholic schools are a total waste of time and money, and parents would be much better advised to instruct their kids in the faith themselves. I wouldn't let any other adult mess with my children's minds when it comes to questions of faith, especially priests and religious.

[saradippity]

For what it's worth,both Mahoney and Cardinal Rigali come from California. They were ordained as priests within a year of each other.M.in Fresno,Cardinal Rigali in L.A..They may have attended the same seminary.

It's reasonable to assume they knew each other for a long time,they also were high ranking prelates in the Church for quite some time and certainly worked on some projects together.

I can see how that information could be reported and interpreted,even without any intention of spinning,to read,something to the effect that Mahoney and Cardinal Rigali have had a long term friendship.

So it could be just a fact combined with an imprecise definition that means little. That is what I think and hope.

[LadyDoc]

King envisions lay-run parishes with a range of programs and social justice outreach with priests from religious orders arriving for Mass on Sunday

Translation: liberal churches run by feminists ex nuns and other PC people who want to use the church to promote socialism instead of holiness....