Jews for Allah

Jewsweek ^ | 9-9-03

[SJackson]

	October 7, 2003

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Jews for Allah

It began as a joke, but it's now all too real. Adopting the same methodology of Jews for Jesus, a Web site is trying to tell you it's OK to be a Jew and follow Mohammed too.

by Alexandra Alter

October 3, 2003

It began as sort of a joke. Mohamed Ghounem, 32, a mild-mannered, laid-off telecom worker who lives with his wife and daughter in suburban Connecticut, says it was the headline "Christ Converts to Islam" in the satirical newspaper The Onion that gave him the idea for his Web site, JewsforAllah.com.

At first, he laughed. Then he thought, "Why not?" Ghounem, whose religious pedigree includes a year of study at al-Azhar, the world's foremost institute of Sunni Islamic learning, said he felt frustrated by Muslims' lack of evangelical activity.

		The curious conversion

		Jewsforallah.com

Although Muslims are the world's fastest growing religious group with more than a billion adherents, they haven't been active enough in the battle for Jewish souls, Ghounem says. "Muslims haven't been doing it," he says. "The Muslim attitude, unfortunately, was 'Jews will never convert'."

But why target Jews, fellow monotheists whose faith is regarded by many as Islam's closest relative, and who the Quran describes as "People of the Book?" According to Ghounem's reasoning, to help the Jews, who remain dangerously ignorant of Mohammed's prophecy, and, in the long run, to turn Israel into an Islamic state.

Ghounem's goals, while seen by many as laughably far-fetched, have outraged leaders of Jewish counter-missionary groups who have already been fighting off Christian evangelists for decades and are wary of new attempts to convert Jews by aggressive or deceptive means.

A fervent admirer of Moishe Rosen, the founder of the messianic group Jews for Jesus, Ghounem has studied the groups' tactics and adopted their rhetoric. Like Jews for Jesus, an organization renowned for claiming a Jew who believes in Jesus is a "completed Jew," Ghounem says converts can maintain their Jewish cultural identity and observe Jewish holidays. He stresses Judaism and Islam's shared lineage of prophets and their similar dietary laws. And, in language almost identical to his Christian mentors, he insists that a true Jew follows Mohammed.

"If you're a true Torah follower, you'll believe in Mohammed, because he's predicted in the Torah," Ghounem says.

He also argues Jews can liberate themselves from the stringent demands of their religion by embracing Islam. "The holy Quran is a mercy to Jews," Ghounem says. "A lot of the things in the Torah, they're not going to have to do anymore."

The suggestion that Judaism's proximity to Islam justifies conversion remains odious to many, however, who see Ghounem's efforts as an affront to both religions. "What this guy is doing is a disservice to both faith systems," says Scott Hillman, executive director of Jews for Judaism, a group that seeks to educate and protect Jews from evangelical groups. "If he's going to say, 'Judaism is fulfilled by Islam,' he's saying Islam is incomplete."

Others say Ghounem is simply acting on the centuries-old impetus for people of all faiths to seek converts. Ibrahim Hooper of the Council for American Islamic Relations says Ghounem's objectives are in keeping with the principles of Islam, which encourages evangelism. "Muslims are encouraged to present accurate and balanced information about their faith to people of all religions," Hooper says.

Before he set out to convert Jews, Ghounem underwent a conversion of his own, from being an American college student who was mostly ignorant about his faith, to a self-fashioned Muslim scholar combating the pervasive myths about Islam he encountered on the Internet.

Ghounem, who immigrated to the United States from Egypt at age six, says his knowledge of Islam was tenuous when he graduated from Western Connecticut University with a degree in engineering. After returning to Cairo for a year to study at al-Azhar, Ghounem began spending hours a night in chat-room debates with Messianic Jews and Christians.

Unlike Jews for Jesus, Ghounem has no sponsors and no missionaries; he relies solely on the Internet for outreach. His Web site, which has had more than one million visitors since it was launched three years ago, has attracted about 200 "converts" who use it as a support group. It also provides a forum for Ghounem to address misconceptions about Islam, like the idea that Islam was spread by the sword, that the Quran is anti-Semitic, and that Jews and Muslims worship different gods.

Leaders of Jewish counter-missionary organizations claim they aren't overly concerned by Ghounem's efforts, saying the content of his Web site is so outrageous that most people don't pay attention. "This is a freak show, a side show," says Rabbi Tovia Singer, the head of Outreach Judaism, a group that works to bring converts back into the fold.

Moreover, they say Ghounem's background as an Egyptian-born Sunni Muslim probably doesn't help his quest for Jewish converts. "Ghounem wasn't a Jew in the first place. The Jews for Jesus founder was at least a convert who was Jewish," Hillman says.

Ghounem may not be Jewish, but the man who he has described as his alter ego, Yousef al Khattab, was born a Jew. The 35-year-old Brooklyn native, once known as Joseph Cohen, now lives in the Arab quarter of Jerusalem, where for the past three years he has operated the Web site JewstoIslam.com. Though the two men have never met, they monitor each other's progress and frequently chat online.

While Ghounem's site may invite ridicule, al Khattab's has been attacked with viruses, threats, and complaints. With links such as "My Heroes the Taliban" and "Freaky Jewish Stuff," which details such familiar anti-Semitic myths as rabbis sucking babies' blood, it is no wonder the site has been taken down several times.

As a former Jew preaching conversion amid the treacherous political and religious fault lines dividing Israel, al Khattab is a far more controversial figure than Ghounem. His transformation from being an ultra-Orthodox American Jew to a fundamentalist Muslim gives him license to preach a higher level of invective against Jews than his Gentile counterparts, says Singer, who says al Khattab threatened his life by posting his home address on the Internet and inviting Muslims to "visit him at his home."

"Jews who've converted to Islam are disenfranchised and self-hating," Singer says. "When you listen to them, you will hear virulent hatred toward Judaism. Their message is pregnant with hate."

But al Khattab, who denies ever having contact with Singer, says it is Judaism, rather than Jews, that he opposes, arguing that Jews have been misled by their rabbis. "Muslims are all inclusive and the whole message of Islam is to invite Jews, Nazis, capitalists, all religions and beliefs," al Khattab said in an e-mail.

Al Khattab, who has converted 11 Jews, said he was attracted by Islam's clear message of obedience to God. He seems unfazed by charges that he supports the goals of terrorists (he has called on Muslims to take up arms against Jews who don't convert), or by other Muslims' initial suspicions that he was a member of Mossad, the Israeli secret service.

"When we become Muslims we do this for the sake of Allah all mighty alone," he says. "We don't care if Muslims or non-Muslims approve of our goals."

Ghounem, who shares al Khattab's goal of turning Israel into an Islamic state, has chosen a different approach, however, taking careful stock of opinions about his Web site and often adjusting its content to appease critics. He took down a link about Sufism, the mystical strain of Islam, after some of his more orthodox fans complained Sufism is a fringe movement alien to Islam.

Ghounem said he recognizes converts risk alienation from both faiths, but hopes his Web site might lead to dialogue between Muslims and Jews. Well, that and one other thing. "My goal is to surpass Jews for Jesus, which I consider 100 percent inevitable," he said enthusiastically.

[Jason_b]

bump for later

[Mr. Silverback]

Absolutely agree. Trust me on this, I think Muhammad got a visit from Gabriel about as much as he got a visit from Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin.

[cookcounty]

"What Islam desperately needs is something akin to a post-Protestant reformation Peace of Westphalia, where ancient texts get interpretated in ways to foster harmony rather than conflict. For example, an Islamic reformer could easily endorse Israel as a Jewish State based on the Koranic command that G-d gave the land to the Jews, much as American Protestant reformers developed Christian Zionism that suplanted old Catholic "replacement theology." In similiar ways, an Islamic reformer could preach genuine peace between Muslims and Christians. "

There is some sort of imam in Italy that embraces the idea (from the Koran or Hadith, I forgot which, ) , that the Palestinian area is "the Land of the Jews." If you google around I think you'll find it. He has an Italian last name, appears to be a convert to Islam.

I agree that the Jews and the Christians have the advantage of theologies that vacate any necessity of applying violent solutions to current situations. It would be great if Islam could get through to this position as well.

There certainly are some areas is which Judaism in its current state is closer to Islam, but even in some of these aspects you mentioned, I think its possible to overdraw those lines.

No christian (well maybe a novice) would use a word like "divided" to describe their concept of God. It's a value judgement from the outside. Yes, I know it's at least a step away from from pure reason in normal human categories.

And large numbers of Christians are as abhorrent of images, particularly in worship. In the influences of my background ( Baptist-Mennonite-Dutch Reformed ), iconoclasm has been deeply held, and is still highly influential.

[Mr. Silverback]

If Israel acts like all the other Muslim states, the Palestinians get expelled, and anyone who objects get hauled away and tortured.

Between 1948 and 1967, the territory "Palestine" now sits on was part of Jordan, IIRC. No Palestinians were killing Jordanians. Yet, for some reason, Jordan never felt that the Palestinians needed a state of their own...

[mikegi]

however, like i said in my last message, i'm in no way responsible for stupid, unjust, and inhuman acts done by people like those on 9/11. i don't have to defend them, and i don't. i condemn their actions. they may claim to be muslim, but it's obvious to any educated muslim that they aren't doing what the qur'an and muhammad commanded

That's great. Now go out and condemn them over and over again in the media, in your mosque, everywhere you can. Organize your fellow Muslims to root out the evil ones doing these terrible things in the name of your religion. We, the non-muslims, will eliminate these people ourselves but we will paint with a much larger brush than you would because we are outsiders.

[Mr. Silverback]

Great tagline.

The Buchanan types who say Israel runs us and we should ditch her probably don't want to think about how close they are to Harry Truman on the issue.

[Mr. Silverback]

9. JFJ works tirelessly to combat anti-semitism among Christians ---they literally spend more time doing this than they do "evangelizing."

Something they shouldn't have to do. Never mind the hypocrisy of a "Christian" hating the people Jesus came from, there's so much stuff in Acts and the epistles about Jews and Gentiles being the same in God's eyes.

[Mr. Silverback]

Well. Thank you. Now certain passages I have read from the Koran make sense. Instead of calling for the killing of all who do not follow their particular religion, the Koran calls for the killing of all who do not submit to G-d. It's still too damned harsh in a civilized society, but it makes this particular Jew put his Uzi back in it's carrying case. :o)

My position on the religion of peace issue always has been this: It doesn't really matter whether Islam is a religion of peace, it matters how many Muslims practice it as a religion of peace. Christianity is not a religion of slavery (and the Bible even says slavetraders will not enter Heaven) or race-hatred, but how many churches justified slavery in antebellum America; how many Klan members and neo-Nazis claim to be "Christians?" Heck, "Christian" views on homosexuality range from "Of course we held a protest outside Matthew Sheppard's funeral because Jesus hates fags" to "You're gay? Great, that's just what we're looking for in a Bishop!" Certainly, God Almighty does not hold both of those opinions, and I would say he holds neither one, yet people belive these things and claim they serve Christ. Most American Muslims would be far more welcome in my living room than any such "Christian." So if we woke up tomorrow and 99% of the world's Muslims were of the "It's a religion of peace" sort, I would be glad to live in peace with the 99% and kill the reemaining 1% deader than cockroaches at an exterminator's convention.

That said (apologies for long-windedness) don't holster your Uzi just yet. Check this out:

[W]e find this praise to Allah for help in conquests in Surah 33, verses 25-27:

"And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting, and Allah is Strong, Mighty. And he drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part. And he made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property and (to) land where you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things."

The Beni Qoreiga tribe were not the only “People of the Book” that Muhammad was now against. In Surah 9, verse 29 we read, “Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Indeed, in Surah 8, verse 65, Muhammad wrote a command from Allah to make war, and a guarantee it will be a success. “O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand."

This is from a paper I wrote on Muhammad's early military campaigns and their effect on Islamic doctrine. The Qur’an quotes are from an edition translated by M.H. Shakir, which I checked against other translations to make sure his version was consistent. The Beni Qoreiga tribe was a group of Jews Muhammad decimated in Medina because they would not offer him military support--6-800 men executed, about 1,000 women and children sold into slavery. One widow was made Muhammad's concubine.

There is also an islamic doctrine called "The Abrogator and the Abrogated" which holds that if two verses of the Qu'ran conflict, the later one is in operation and the former one is no longer in effect. To give an idea what effect this has had, check out this quote from Islam Unveiled by Abdullah Al-Araby:

An example of abrogation: there are 124 verses that call for tolerance and patience which have been cancelled and replaced by this single verse: “Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)...” Surah 9:5. One doesn’t help but wonder; how Allah, the all-powerful, the omniscient, and the omnipotent, needs to revise himself so often.

In that context, "Pagans" means any who do not believe in Allah as the one true God, so it would include Jews and Christians. Many people may practice Islam as a peaceful religion, but it had not been so from about the time Muhammad moved to Medina, and the period of violence and expansionism by Islamist forces has continued with hardly a pause for 1,300 years.

[Mr. Silverback]

If Islam practiced what you claim it preaches, Christians would regard it much as we do Bhuddism: a faith of millions, but not a threat to civilization, as the Taliban are.

Excellent point.

[joe032783]

well,
there is the qur'an and the example of muhammad, and there are interpretations. the person who gave this khutba is, in my view, mistaken. I believe that the qur'an and muhammad set a clear example to work for peace whenever possible. to make the qur'an or prophet look bad, you have to take one or two verses or sayings, take them out of context, and try to fit them to your preconceived notions. it's no fault of my religion that some people give bad sermons

[joe032783]

the view in islam is that jesue(peace be upon him) was a prophet of God, and like all prophets, he made up the best of humanity. so, we believe that prophets don't lie.
since the qur'an speaks about jesus, and we believe that the qur'an is the word of god, the qu'ran is the authority on jesus. since the new testament may or may not have true statements in it, according to our belief, we rely on the qur'an

[joe032783]

that's not true about his wife, she comforted him and encouraged him in his prophethood

[DannyTN]

Did you see post 79. I had it backwards in 78.

It's my understanding Mohammed initially thought he was possessed by an evil spirit. His wife convinced him otherwise. So yes I agree she encouraged him. But based on the description of how the spirit treated him. I don't think she should have. I think she should have gone with Mohammeds first impression. After all, he was the one being seized by the spirit.

[DannyTN]

"so, we believe that prophets don't lie. "

I thought there was something in Islam that said that Jesus basically substituted someone else on the cross at the last minute. And that when Jesus comes back he will apologize for the deception.

My understanding is Islam teaches that Jesus didn't die or be resurrected, but was taken up to heaven before dying on the cross. So it's not that he verbally spoke a lie, but that his acts were deceptive.

[DannyTN]

"since the new testament may or may not have true statements in it, according to our belief, we rely on the qur'an "

But I thought the qur'an says both the Old and New Testament are to be considered Scripture and are true. Which makes the qur'an's subsequent contradictions of the New Testament an internal contradiction in the qur'an.

And yes I know the qur'an claims for itself not to have internal contradictions but if I'm right about this, that's an internal contradiction in itself.

[Agitate]

...to make the qur'an or prophet look bad, you have to take one or two verses or sayings, take them out of context, and try to fit them to your preconceived notions. it's no fault of my religion that some people give bad sermons

I hope you don't mean my preconceived notions, like most Americans, I never gave Islam a thought until very recently, even a year after 911. And as for making Islam look bad, I don't have to do that, muslims around the world are doing a darn good job of it on their own.

Nobody said it was your fault personally that some cleric gives a bad sermon anymore than it's my fault that racists like the KKK use the bible to justify their ends. However, bigotry and hatred towards anyone not a muslim is far more rampant and acceptable in the mainstream of muslim countries than anywhere else. Violence is committed all over the world specifically in the name of allah and islam. One can't look at this and leave Islam and the quran out of the equation. Misinterpreted or not, muslims need to do something about this, or somebody else will when it gets to other countries.

Now, can you tell me what verses the person(s) behind this sermon is misinterpreting? I'd be interested.

[Agitate]

I thought there was something in Islam that said that Jesus basically substituted someone else on the cross at the last minute. And that when Jesus comes back he will apologize for the deception. My understanding is Islam teaches that Jesus didn't die or be resurrected, but was taken up to heaven before dying on the cross. So it's not that he verbally spoke a lie, but that his acts were deceptive.

This is my understanding also, Muslims believe Christ never died on the cross but a substitute went instead, whay say you Joe?

[Agitate]

But I thought the qur'an says both the Old and New Testament are to be considered Scripture and are true. Which makes the qur'an's subsequent contradictions of the New Testament an internal contradiction in the qur'an. And yes I know the qur'an claims for itself not to have internal contradictions but if I'm right about this, that's an internal contradiction in itself.

I have read this also in my studies of Islam so far.

[Salem]

"hi mike, nice to meet you. thanks for the offer, but i've got my hands full dealing with the strictly religious side of my faith. i don't have time to really get into talking about the israel/palestinian conflict."

No time, huh? Sure, although the Israeli/Palistinian conflict is the central and defining issue of our time concerning Islam on a national, political, and social level.

"i have to say though, i'm no apologist."

Yes, you are, for Islam, or you wouldn't be here.

apologist: n. a person who defends and idea, faith, cause, or institution.

"islam is my religion, and muhammad, among others like jesus, abraham, and moses are my prophets. the qur'an is my holy book. i don't apologize for anything done by the prophets, or anything said in the qur'an."

"Muhammad" has no place in that line-up. He wasn't a prophet. Not even close.

"however, like i said in my last message, i'm in no way responsible for stupid, unjust, and inhuman acts done by people like those on 9/11. i don't have to defend them, and i don't. i condemn their actions. they may claim to be muslim, but it's obvious to any educated muslim that they aren't doing what the qur'an and muhammad commanded"

So you present yourself a "moderate" Muslim? The Islamic terrorists targeting the free world are certainly not uneducated. Actually, many are educated at the University level, both in America and abroad, and carry degrees. Sheik Abdullah Azzam is an example. Hardly the backward, uneducated Muslim that Islamic apologists in America try to portray overseas terrorists as.

So, who are you affiliated with? CAIR? the AMC? Do you live in America?

[rmlew]

1. You explained Yathrib/Medina, not Khaibar.
2. If you want to accept a magical plot as a matter of faith, fine, but don't expect non-Muslims to accept it.
3. Take a good look at Dhimmi status. It is not race based but religion based. The discrimination still exists.

I do want to applaud you, as a moderate Muslim, defending your religion on this forum. There are many angry and ignorant folk who hate all Muslims.