Followup: You ever call? Do any good?
Posted on 09/27/2003 8:39:41 PM PDT by mhking
I've never heard my life during th 80's summed up better!
You are the man!!!
Just how I have seen em act in the past........Stay Safe !
They're more concerned with making certain the thing remains a muzzleloader rather than concerns as to the nature of the propellant. There are also a few Destructive Device shooters working up propelling charges for recoilless rifles and the 37mm AT guns in particular, for which black powder doesn't work all that great.
The thing BATF gets fussiest about regarding muzzleloaders is exploding or *spotter charge* shells, which they consider to be seperate and individual *explosive devices* themselves, with a $200 per shot federal tax...unless you're a licensed DD manufacturer involved in *testing.* Avoid that end of things [particularly with muzzleloading mortars and stick top bowling balls, and things will go a lot smoother.
Those of us reworking tank main guns have a bit more paperwork with which to deal. And my pal with the 90mm AA gun [he couldn't find a working 88mm Flak 18, but the 90 comes pretty close] is developing writer's cramp.
-archy-/-
DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES
26 U.S.C. sec. 5845(f) "The term destructive device means1) any explosive, incendiary or poison gas
A) bomb
B) grenade
C) rocket having propellant charge of more than four ounces
D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce
E) mine, or
F) similar device2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of a explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and
3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term 'destructive device' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685 or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury or his delegate finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes."
Secretary in the above refers to the Secretary of the Treasury, unless it says otherwise. The fee for the FFL to deal in DD's is $1000 a year (type 09), and one must also be a special taxpayer, add another $500 a year. Making them requires a different $1000 a year FFL (type 10), although an individual may make them on a Form 1, tax paid ($200). Transfers require the whole routine just like full-autos; a form 4, $200 tax, a law enforcement sign-off, pictures and fingerprints. Most class 3 dealers don't have the $1000 a year FFL to deal in DD's. Note that antiques are excluded. Thus the definition of an antique NFA firearm is important.
Some examples of what is a DD and what is not:
Muzzle loading cannon - NOT, as it is an antique design, unless it has some special features allowing breech loading.
Explosive grenade - is a DD
Molotov cocktail - is a DD
M-79 or M-203 40mm grenade launcher - is a DD
Smooth bore 37mm projectile launcher - not a DD. Not even a title 1 firearm. This item falls under the "not a weapon" (signaling device) exception. Generally a large bore device for which no anti-personnel ammo has ever been made will NOT be a DD.
This used to be true of the 37mm guns. However, according to ATF, some folks have started making anti-personnel rounds for these guns, and ATF has ruled that possession of a 37mm launcher and a bean bag or rubber shot or similar round is possession of a DD, and at that point the launcher needs to be registered. Put another way, before you make or buy anti-personnel rounds for your 37mm launcher, register it as a DD. The rounds themselves, not being explosive, incendiary or poison gas, are not regulated in themselves either. It is just the two together. See ATF Ruling 95-3.
40mm grenade for an M-79 or M-203 - a DD.
Non-explosive 40mm practice ammo - not a DD.
[Commercial making of it would require a type 10 FFL though, as although the ammo is not itself classified as a DD, making ammo for a DD requires the FFL..
Non-sporting 12 gauge shotgun - is a DD, because it has a bore over 1/2", and is not exempted unless it meets the "sporting use" test. Check out the case Gilbert Equipment Co., Inc., v. Higgins, 709 F. Supp. 1071 (D. Ala. 1989) for how the sporting use test has been re-interpreted from what it meant when the law was enacted to having ATF be arbiters of what is "sport".
Flame Thrower - not a DD, nor even a firearm. Unregulated as to possession, under federal law. Great way to clear snow off the driveway.
Japanese Knee Mortar - A DD. Even though there is no available ammo for it, explosive or otherwise, and hasn't been since 1945, because anti-personnel ammo was made for it in the past, it is a weapon. As it has a bore over 1/2" and isn't sporting, it is a DD.
Other popular bore diameters include those suited for accurate launching of golf balls [FORE!] tennis balls, soft balls, soft drink soda cans [often filled with cement] and two or three liter plastic pop bottles.
Details and sources available upon request.
-archy-/-
I thought you worked at the BATF?
-todd
Followup: You ever call? Do any good?
Post 79 details preliminary specifications.
We also need someone to deterime if a 9.5" bore is suitable for a 8.6" bowling ball. Schedule 140 pipe would give a bore of 8.75".
Anybody here know which would be better???
This has been brought up several times so I thought that I would ping it again.....
And yer experiment could cost ya that limb Son !...............
But do take pictures ! I have been using your escapades in my daily safety briefs..........ie what would Eaker do in this situation boys and girls ? Everybody just nods and agrees maybe theres a better way............:o)
All funnin aside I think you better touch this thing off from behind a sand bag bunker the first 20 or so times. Keep it low power and not try to emulate a monster chunk of artillery and ya should be fine.
Stay Safe !
;<)
Any updates?
Not a shot group - recoil indents.
That's what I call bowling overhand.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.