Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Blackpowder, bowling balls and sewer pipe! (Fire in the hole!!!)
One Fine September Morning... ^

Posted on 09/27/2003 8:39:41 PM PDT by mhking

Ah, serendipity. Being in the right place at the right time.
As it happened, this fine and sunny September Sunday morning found me and a few others at the local gun range, sighting in- or trying to- some rifles. Some were cooperating, some weren't. A normal outing to the range, really...

Until this fellow pulls up and starts unloading a big 'ol hunk o' pipe.

Pipe? Bowling balls?

I thought he was going to bury it as a new target stand or something.... 'til I saw the Bowling Balls. I then immediately knew it must be what some call a "punt" mortar! I'd seen similar handmade ones on the 'net and in magazines... naturally, we all completely forgot about our own rifles for the moment.

How far'zat thing go, anyway?

The Gun Range is a nice place- raised, covered shooting line, plenty of tables, well-kept grounds. The first line of targets is at 100 yards, with small berms and pipe target stands at 200, 300 and 400 yards as well, plus a trail/road to drive up to 'em if you need to. And at 500 yards, right at the base of the stand of trees off in the distance, is a full-size steel cutout of a moose, painted day-glo orange. Above, the guy with the mortar is pouring in some three ounces of Fg (coarse) Pyrodex black powder...

This sucker is huge!

This thing is huge! Probably weighing some 150 pounds, half-inch-nominal wall pipe with a massive two-inch-thick breechblock welded on one end. The touchhole or fuse passage leads to a small "chamber" in the center that holds the powder in a single spot, rather than letting it cover the whole 8.5" bore.

Crude, but it works.

Crude, yes, but it works. The owner is reluctant to do any additional welding on the pipe, for fear of making a weak or brittle spot, so he just stacks up whatever's handy to hold it, oh, 'bout there or so. This thing's so cool I want to make the guy some adjustable legs like the old 4.2" Chemical Mortar had....

Fire in the hole!

Three ounces of Pyrodex, an old garage-sale-special bowling ball, an old chair and some sewer pipe... Fire in the hole!

I'll be over here where it's safe...

He's not running, but he ain't dawdling either! Let's see, the fuse burns at about one minute per foot, there's about six inches there... dum da dum... carry the three...

KABOOM!

HOLY FREAKING BATTLESHIP MISSOURI! By the time the shutter snapped, the ball was, in relation to this picture on your screen, about six monitors up and climbing. It was whistling. I lost track of it since I was trying to get the picture, but the guys say it cleared the treeline by probably another hundred yards.

Let's do that again!

Let's do that AGAIN! Rod out the fuse hole, make sure there aren't any errant embers, pull the mortar up out of the divot it created, weigh out another charge of powder, another bowling ball... This time I was watching downrange with the camera pointing at the cannon... Holy Creeping God, ladies and gentlemen! That ball was screaming out of there! I'd wager it landed over 600 yards downrange.

I should have brought out my Radar Chrony. I'd guess that ball wasn't moving over 700 fps, possibly as low as 400 fps, but jeez, think of the mass! That ball's what, eight to ten pounds?!? What's the Hatcher's Index of a projectile weighing fifty-thousand grains moving at 400 fps? "Body armor" against this thing is eight feet of dirt over a concrete bunker!

Excavations?

Think Grandpas' old thirty-thirty is a kicker? How about a hundred-plus-pound gun that pushes itself into the dirt six to eight inches each time it goes off? This is not a shoulder arm.

After all four balls were expended, we helped load it back in the guy's car. I noted that there were some divots from earlier shoots... he said he gathers up old balls whenever he can find 'em, then when he has a few, on a nice day he'll come out and blow 'wm downrange. Says it always draws a crowd. I said "so there's already a few balls out there in the swamp, eh?"
"Oh, more than a few, yeah."

He says he also has a short cannon that takes small tomato-sauce cans and another mortar that takes soda cans. The soda cans, it seems, don't hold together well- the force of firing blows the can off the concrete fill, which then blows up in the air.

Besides, he says, NOTHING beats seeing that bowling ball howl downrange as far as the eye can see.

I agree. :) The pictures don't do this justice; this is something every Tinker or gadget freak should see in person at least once in their life.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; boom
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240 ... 281-292 next last
To: Squantos; HoustonCurmudgeon; humblegunner; TheMom; thackney
Got any seemless steel pipe in that diameter Eaker ?

I would not use ERW or DSAW, the only thing that I would use is seamless. As to availability, it is good, but I would want to check the MTR's personally. It would also have to be X-60 at a minimum.

The diameter of a bowling ball is is the initial parameter that we have to work with. Being a relatively fixed number we have to work safely around this number. Pipe size appears fixed at ten inches. Our variable is the wall thickness. The variable that I do not have is the clearance between the ball and bore that is optimum. If someone could give me an idea as to the thickness of wadding that is best we can work from there.

We cannot perform a pressure calculation until we determine a fixed ball size. We would have to pick a particular Model ball and work with that ball. The small variance of diameter is critical for accuracy and safety (pressure) is the first hurtle that must be jumped.

Where do range balls go when they die? This is our first step in obtaining cheap ammo and is required before we go any further in designing a system.

Also consider a plate vs a cap for the reasons in the article.

If you use a plate instead of a cap the pressure will kill the system before stress is even an issue. It has to be a cap.

The less heat stress from welding on the pipe itself is paramount.

Setting up a proper welding procedure to minimize stress is not a problem. I envision eventually that we will determine an optimum barrel length and then work from there. The testing procedure will include X-Ray and hydrostatic testing. After the hydro the excess length will be removed and we will have no fears.

This could happen folks!!!

201 posted on 09/28/2003 5:59:10 PM PDT by Eaker (Amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.............hmmmmmmmmm ;<)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 115 | View Replies]

Damn I hate to repeat myself!!
202 posted on 09/28/2003 6:01:21 PM PDT by Eaker (Amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.............hmmmmmmmmm ;<)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 201 | View Replies]

To: HoustonCurmudgeon
that was called Midevil Seige... I believe. I can get the specific name and date, I have rented it from the library several times
203 posted on 09/28/2003 6:02:19 PM PDT by Walkingfeather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: archy
being a longtime WWII Finnish weaponry collector and shooter.

Remind me to tell you about my 1927 Tikka M-91 heavy barrel.

Finns got to love them!
204 posted on 09/28/2003 6:02:30 PM PDT by tet68 (multiculturalism is an ideological academic fantasy maintained in obvious bad faith. M. Thompson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies]

To: Eaker; Squantos; HoustonCurmudgeon; humblegunner; TheMom; thackney; TexasCowboy; Dog Gone
I suggest we get Texas Cowboy and Dog Gone involved. TC in case we need to give someone up to the cops and DG in case we need a lawyer!
205 posted on 09/28/2003 6:04:15 PM PDT by HoustonCurmudgeon (PEACE - Through Superior Firepower)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 201 | View Replies]

To: Shooter 2.5
Man, you are so required on this project.

I think that between you and Squantos that I could actually live through this!!

;<)

206 posted on 09/28/2003 6:05:19 PM PDT by Eaker (Amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.............hmmmmmmmmm ;<)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: Eaker
I'll be your Range Safety Officer if you sign a waiver and make me your beneficiary.
207 posted on 09/28/2003 6:15:03 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 ("Fahr na hole!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 206 | View Replies]

To: archy
A standard oxygen cylinder, a DOT 2015, 2275 or even a 2400 does not have an internal diameter of 8.6 inches. How did they get a bowling ball into a hole in which it could not fit??

Or did they use a non-standard cylinder?

208 posted on 09/28/2003 6:20:14 PM PDT by Eaker (Amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.............hmmmmmmmmm ;<)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 136 | View Replies]

To: archy
A very light coat of white carpenter's glue or rubber cement and a dunk in Bulleseye pistol reloading powder results in a fine electrical ignitor that's proved nearly 100% reliable for me, so long as I'm neat about attaching the electrical leads to the small wires of the flashbul

Next time the mood strikes me, I will have to give that a try.

209 posted on 09/28/2003 6:22:36 PM PDT by Monitor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: archy
You don't have to remove the magnesium wool, and the pure oxygen atmosphere content inside the bulbs promotes a hotter ignition anyway. A very light coat of white carpenter's glue or rubber cement and a dunk in Bulleseye pistol reloading powder results in a fine electrical ignitor that's proved nearly 100% reliable for me, so long as I'm neat about attaching the electrical leads to the small wires of the flashbul

Interesting detonator for fireworks. Have the remeber that one.

210 posted on 09/28/2003 6:24:56 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Islam : totalitarian political ideology / meme cloaked under the cover of religion)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: Eaker; Squantos
This is a great thread, but I'm way out of my depth, so for once I'm just lurking and learning.


211 posted on 09/28/2003 6:32:36 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: Eaker
The variable that I do not have is the clearance between the ball and bore that is optimum. If someone could give me an idea as to the thickness of wadding that is best we can work from there.

See post 193. 1/40th the diameter of the bore, 0.12 inches for a 10-inch. I wouldn't use any wadding.

212 posted on 09/28/2003 6:33:47 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 ("Fahr na hole!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 201 | View Replies]

To: Eaker
It's been too long for me to go and look up the right formulas for gas pressures but below is the basic information for determining chamber pressures for this pipe bomb. SAAMI doesn't seem to say too much about black powder antics since they are devoted to the issues surrounding modern smokeless propellents.

I did find some stuff about black powder artillery and have listed that below, too. Seems these fellows think this should be classified as a cannon on the basis of the ratio of the projectile length and the bore diameter. In any event, they specify a yield strength of 85,000 psi for safe barrels. That's a long, long way from 2,900 psi.

Mortar safety:

http://cthulhu.control.com/~emoore/AAA/mrt.html

Cannon safety:

http://cthulhu.control.com/~emoore/marty.html

General black powder information:

http://www.aeroballisticsonline.com/articles/blackpowder.html

"Blackpowder is a comparatively inefficient powder. One gram of blackpowder gives you 718 calories of heat, 270 cubic centimeters of gas, and about half of a gram of residue."

Gas Volume generated by "3 ounces" of black powder:

3 ounces = (28 x 3) = ~84 grams
84 x 270 cc. = 22,680 cc. = (22,680/1,000) = 22.69 liters of gas volume

Chamber dimensions for an 8" diameter barrel with 3' length:

(3.1428) x (16) = 50.2848 square inches
(50.2848) x 36 = 1810.253 cubic inches = 29.67 liters

Volume of gas in excess of containment vessel volume:

(29.67) - (22.69) = 6.98 liters

The ballasticians and physicists out there should be able to make sense out of that information.

For those that value their eyes and limbs and would like to continue sucking air, here's a cool firm that specializes in the real thing:

http://www.cannonsonline.com/midas/co_r_showCat.asp?category=5

213 posted on 09/28/2003 6:55:34 PM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Defund PBS, NPR & PRAVDA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: Centurion2000; epow; Shooter 2.5
Re: H110 in .454 Casull. I use about 31 gr w/300 JFP to produce 1800 fps and about 55,000 CUP. I don't shoot 45 Colts in it. I can load 14 gr of Unique under the same 300 JFP and get 1275 fps with only 38,000 CUP, which is easy shooting.
214 posted on 09/28/2003 7:09:42 PM PDT by umgud (gov't has more money than it needs, but never as much as it wants)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 210 | View Replies]

To: WorkingClassFilth
In any event, they specify a yield strength of 85,000 psi for safe barrels. That's a long, long way from 2,900 psi.

Apples to oranges. 2,900 psi is dealing with a sealed system and 85,000 psi is an open system. The first is sustained and the second is momentary. Do you think that a tank barrel can withstand 85,000 psi if sealed? My glock can withstand 50,000 psi if sealed?

We are trying to stick to apples.

Thanks for the info.

Tom Eaker

215 posted on 09/28/2003 7:11:33 PM PDT by Eaker (Amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.............hmmmmmmmmm ;<)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 213 | View Replies]

To: mhking
Very cool...

and interesting thread that follows, too.

...nowadays around these parts a kid "blowing up" plastic 2-liter soda bottles with a little water and some dry ice can get him a Felony Explosive Device charge and a big lawyer bill.

:-(

216 posted on 09/28/2003 7:15:04 PM PDT by tgslTakoma
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cannoneer No. 4
Gonna have to save my pennies fer sure now........THANK YOU very much for the links !

Stay Safe !

217 posted on 09/28/2003 7:15:57 PM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 183 | View Replies]

To: archy
Those are long gone Archy......trust me on that one !.......:o)

Stay Safe !

218 posted on 09/28/2003 7:20:13 PM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: Chancellor Palpatine
"I gotta wonder about the thickness of that pipe, and about stress fractures..... "

Wrap any pipe in piano wire, and it will withstand ANYTHING! Just ask me! (^; (Just stand clear of BOTH ends!)

Nam Vet

219 posted on 09/28/2003 7:22:18 PM PDT by Nam Vet (It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: Monitor
Duh ........Doom on me.......:o)

OK ! Stay Safe !

220 posted on 09/28/2003 7:22:44 PM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 199 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240 ... 281-292 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson