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Let the neo-cons bellow, just bring the troops home
The Seattle Times ^ | 9/24/03 | Bruce Ramsey

Posted on 09/25/2003 7:54:01 PM PDT by Burkeman1

George, here's what to do in Iraq: Declare victory and bring the troops home.

A senator from Vermont once suggested such a policy during the Vietnam War. It would have meant a defeat. In this case, it might mean chaos, at least for a while, unless you can get more international help.

You asked for help from the U.N. That was good. Get back to them and say, "We're serious. We're on a fast track to leave."

To America's soldiers, you can say: "You're fighters, not social workers. The fighting's done, excellent work, and you can start going home."

Thousands of American families will thank you.

To the American people, you can say: "We've changed our minds about the occupation of Iraq. We'll need only part of that $87 billion I asked for. The rest you can keep."

Watch your poll numbers go up.

The warrior intellectuals — the neoconservatives — will bellow. Let them. They don't have any electoral votes. The American people never bought their "neo-Wilsonian" fantasies of empire. Asserting American dominance was never your argument for war. You said Americans had to depose Saddam Hussein in order to protect themselves.

That's done.

Our occupation of Iraq is not yet six months old and already Iraqis are making sure that we tire of it. This will not tend to get better. An antiwar feeling has arisen in the United States, and Howard Dean, a nobody from a small state, has ridden it to the head of the pack. Dean says he wouldn't have gone to war in the first place. Few notice that Dean also says we ought to stay in Iraq to do nation-building.

"Well, Howard," you can say, "I'm bringing the troops home. If you're elected, you can send them back."

Would America be giving up if we did that? We would be giving up the right to reconstruct Iraq our way. We would not be giving up anything the average American cares about.

Certainly, the American people would accept a change in policy. They have accepted the official story from the start — the weapons of mass destruction, the "link" between Saddam and bin Laden, the "Woman Warrior" story about Pvt. Jessica Lynch. They are not paying much attention to Iraq. They will accept a pullout.

Consider the alternative: Five years of occupation. Maybe 10. Bombs, demonstrations, dead Americans.

Think of the Democrats. In 2002 you beat them by offering to save America from a foreign threat. If you do that in 2004, you're going to be in trouble. Americans get tired of wars that drag on and on, and tend to toss out the political party that does the dragging. Look up the election of 1952. Also 1968. Ask your dad about the political shelf-life of military victory. It is less than one year.

Think of the economy. Business has been terrible since you became president. The people have been pretty forgiving about that. They know the dot-com bust was not your doing (nor Clinton's, really). You have given the people a tax cut, and Alan Greenspan has given them rock-bottom interest rates. In normal times, these would produce a snapping recovery. But war sits on business confidence like a fat man on a dog.

Your war, a Republican war, of which the politically profitable part is over. We are now in the losing part. The occupation of Iraq could drag on well past November 2004.

But you can forestall that. Lean on the U.N. for troops. Lean on the Egyptians; they owe us a favor or two for the billions we've doled out to them. Speed up the creation of an Iraqi government. You don't need to wait for elections. That's Iraq's business.

Then you can announce that most of the troops will be home by Christmas and you will not be needing all of that $87 billion.

Watch Wall Street jump. The dollar, too.

Nobody expects you to do this. It will shock your friends, but what's more, it will confound your enemies. It will also steer the Republican Party back toward that nationalistic but "humble" foreign policy you described three years ago, which best suits the interests, and the patience, of those who might vote for you in 2004.

Bruce Ramsey's column appears regularly on editorial pages of The Times. His e-mail address is bramsey@seattletimes.com

Copyright © 2003 The Seattle Times Company


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antiwar; bush; foreignpolicy; iraq; neocons; reelection
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To: L,TOWM
Only I am not a Randian; Galt's just a character in a book who favored radical localism and secession.

Unlike the tendencey of those who have been corrupted by Marxists, I do not define myself or others by ideology. Political parties are a waste of time; time better spent with wifie or having a beer on the couch with the ballgame on.

Straight Republican voter, BTW, which apparently, you have not always been.
181 posted on 09/26/2003 11:16:08 AM PDT by JohnGalt (Attention Pseudocons: Wilsonianrepublic.com is still available)
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To: Poohbah
I see an underlying current in your thought: proletarian overthrow of the old order was inevitable.

That is a curious position that needs more line shone upon it. Have I accurately stated your position?

182 posted on 09/26/2003 12:13:18 PM PDT by JohnGalt (Attention Pseudocons: Wilsonianrepublic.com is still available)
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To: JohnGalt
I see an underlying current in your thought: proletarian overthrow of the old order was inevitable.

No, I'm pointing out that if a head of state wrecks his nation and its economy, he'd better have a lot of other benefit to show for the effort--particularly something more than regaining some colonies that never produced a profit.

That is a curious position that needs more line shone upon it. Have I accurately stated your position?

No, you haven't.

183 posted on 09/26/2003 12:33:34 PM PDT by Poohbah ("[Expletive deleted] 'em if they can't take a joke!" -- Major Vic Deakins, USAF)
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To: Poohbah
Tell that ignorannt sitepest to google a bit. I don't recall James Woolsey as a member of the Illuminati.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=World+War+IV+CIA
184 posted on 09/26/2003 12:44:10 PM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus
James Woosley-- LOL.

Too funny.
185 posted on 09/26/2003 12:45:10 PM PDT by JohnGalt (Attention Pseudocons: Wilsonianrepublic.com is still available)
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To: MEG33
George, here's what to do in Iraq: Declare victory and bring the troops home.

Bruce here's a bit of career advice: think mop, broom, service station toilets.

186 posted on 09/26/2003 12:46:15 PM PDT by aculeus
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To: Poohbah
I see; the context for your remark was not very clear.

I think a just peace could have been achieved between the three powers. Britian was the only one who really wanted to keep fighting anyway. France would have lost the Rhineland for sure, but they never really had it with Versailles. I think Britian and Germany could have reached a peace over a couple of colonies, and don't forget Japan had seized some German colonies as well that could have been returned.

It was mostly about presitge and what not between England and Germany; France would have been allowed essentially their post war borders. The Germans may have demanded the 1871 borders but not too much more, IMO.

Austria would have wanted a larger buffer against Italy, that is for sure.

187 posted on 09/26/2003 12:51:11 PM PDT by JohnGalt (Attention Pseudocons: Wilsonianrepublic.com is still available)
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To: Burkeman1; Long Cut
Our standing army paid for by you and me are not patriots but welfare recipients.

My ancestors and relatives have been a part of every war this country ever fought, from the Revolution to my brother currently serving in Afghanistan.

I'm sorry that your relatives have had such bad experiences in our Armed Forces that you now despise everyone who defends our country, even while you depend on them to protect you.

I'd be willing to bet that your folks have had really bad experiences in the private sector as well, and the world just hasn't been fair to them.

Thanks for the ping, Cut -- I think. I hate to know that people with this sort of attitude frequent FR.

188 posted on 09/26/2003 2:28:48 PM PDT by Amelia
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To: JohnGalt
Only I am not a Randian; Galt's just a character in a book

You'll forgive me (or maybe not) if I take your assertion of not being a Rand cultist with a grain of salt, considering your selection of one of their role models (fictional, of course [as they all are]) as your screen name, plus your virtual parroting of the Liberaltarian Party Platform in your posts and thread discussions.

who favored radical localism and secession.
Straight Republican voter,

Well, the secession idea is sure right off the main plank of the GOP Party National Platform. < /sarcasm>

BTW, which apparently, you have not always been.

True enough. I went through a real stupid phase for a while. What can I say? I was stoned out of my gourd most of the time. Why I was even so stupid, I actually believed for years that novels were a valid basis for political goals. Is'nt that a hoot?

Unlike the tendencey of those who have been corrupted by Marxists, I do not define myself or others by ideology.

Yes! O ye of mighty mind, deign to drop some more of your priceless wisdom, that I and the rest of ignorant and foolish masses might someday obtain a small glimmer of your intellectual capacity, superior character, and purity of heart. Lead us fools to The Ultimate Truth, O ye of the Evolved Intellect! Post to me some more, that I may gain an infintessimile piece of your Overarching Knowledge.

Political parties are a waste of time; time better spent with wifie or having a beer on the couch with the ballgame on.

Yeah, I know. I got a wife once I stopped the parties--political or otherwise. Then she agreed that I needed to do some work for the GOP. I would rather have the ballgame (diet Coke for me, please), but some things can actually get my buttocks in motion to get the right people into office.

BTW, thanks for pinging to the Bloviating Babs piece; that was thoughtful (I think ;-) ). It got pulled as a duplicate; maybe you can ping me to whatever thoughts you had on the original post.

189 posted on 09/26/2003 2:28:59 PM PDT by L,TOWM (Liberals, The Other White Meat)
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To: Burkeman1
George, here's what to do in Iraq: Declare victory and bring the troops home.

Not gonna happen. Thanks to Seattle and Bruce Ramsey for the suggestion, anyway. But, reality isn't necessarily the first idea you get in your head at age 3.

190 posted on 09/26/2003 2:33:45 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: rdb3
There is no "empire."

Empire in the original Roman sense - a system of client states, allies, obligations, military bases and protectorats. The emperor was the "first among the equals" - a citizen being in charge of the empire.

191 posted on 09/26/2003 3:16:47 PM PDT by A. Pole ("Is 87 billion dollars a great deal of money? Yes. Can our country afford it?" [Secretary Rumsfeld])
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To: A. Pole
Empire in the original Roman sense - a system of client states, allies, obligations, military bases and protectorats. The emperor was the "first among the equals" - a citizen being in charge of the empire.

Thank you for proving my point. We have no "empire." That's propaganda.


192 posted on 09/26/2003 3:42:38 PM PDT by rdb3 (I write my life; you write what you've seen in gangsta moviez)
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To: Burkeman1
Sounds like a plan to me.
193 posted on 09/26/2003 3:44:57 PM PDT by lodwick (I fear for our Republic.)
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To: Poohbah
Once again you avoid confronting the "why " of the situation. It simple to say we have a fight but for some reason it's very hard for some around here to realize why. BTW, I never said we should not engage al Quaida but I do question Iraq Wars One and Two and our whole foreign policy in general and the mid east policy in particular.

Regarding your remarks "May your chains rest lightly upon you" I properly return them to you since you believe being patriotic means worshipping the power of the state. For you it isn't even "my country right or wrong" it's "my country always right" so you embrace the liberal world view of global government, wealth redistribution and continuous war. You help forge the chains that will enslave us all.

194 posted on 09/26/2003 3:54:47 PM PDT by u-89
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To: hchutch
I never said we should not respond to attacks and Clinton's inaction throughout his term was inexcusable. What I do is question the liberal world view that has shaped our foreign policy for 100 years. I question Iraq War One which led to much of this current mess and I question Iraq War Two but I do not question hunting down and destroying the perps behind 9/11. I favor reexamining our policies since they have had serious blow back. Saying we can absorb that and more then continuing down the same path at an accelerated pace is madness.
195 posted on 09/26/2003 4:04:59 PM PDT by u-89
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To: autoresponder
Yes to all.
196 posted on 09/26/2003 6:06:32 PM PDT by Burkeman1 ((If you see ten troubles comin down the road, Nine will run into the ditch before they reach you.))
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To: Burkeman1
The ramsey's of this world want to ensure we are attacked on American Soil once again; whats the matter, 3000 souls not enough for you?
197 posted on 09/26/2003 6:14:48 PM PDT by winker
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To: winker
I think the same question could be posed more accurately to you and others who want to stick our noses in every corner of the world looking for trouble and then cling to moronic catch phrases like they "hate us because we are free."
198 posted on 09/26/2003 7:04:15 PM PDT by Burkeman1 ((If you see ten troubles comin down the road, Nine will run into the ditch before they reach you.))
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To: Burkeman1
Evil knows no boundary neither does it respect a nations Sovereignty! The desire to leave things undone will be our undoing. Didn't you learn anything from the first Gulf War? We spend billions and billions of dollars setting things in motion and before the water gets hot or we get a bit of bad news we want to drop everything and come running home to mommie!
199 posted on 09/26/2003 7:13:31 PM PDT by winker
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To: winker
Yes- I learned the first Gulf War was a BS war as well. Even though I supported it at the time I have come to see that war as just another made up reason to justify our huge Federal government and foreign entanglements that employ hundreds of thousands of useless bureacrats in DC and elsewhere in our nation. And you really are funny- what was the number one reason OBL gave for the 9/11 attack- ou military presence in Saudi Arabia since the first Gulf War. You are the one who invites terrorist attacks and then denys that our actions had anything to do with it. Stick your head in the sand all you want- some of us won't.
200 posted on 09/26/2003 7:20:51 PM PDT by Burkeman1 ((If you see ten troubles comin down the road, Nine will run into the ditch before they reach you.))
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