Far too generous on immigration

SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE ^ | September 7, 2003 | Joseph Perkins

[sarcasm]

Federico de Jesus owes Victor David Hanson an apology. De Jesus, a staffer for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, falsely accused Hanson, the distinguished author of the just-published book "Mexifornia," of racism and xenophobia at a recent Capitol Hill briefing.

During his introduction, Hanson, a scholar of ancient Rome and Greece, was aptly described as "a classicist." De Jesus somehow interpreted that to mean that the author had a white "classist" bias against immigrants.

Pelosi's aide, who somehow earned a diploma without being able to make a distinction between a classicist and a classist, got ugly with Hanson and stormed out of the briefing in protest.

His hysterics reveal what kind of not-so-beautiful minds the House's top Democrat has shaping her views on issues.

That troubles because there hardly is a more urgent issue facing America than immigration, particularly illegal immigration from Mexico. And Pelosi, the San Francisco Democrat, ought to know that better than most of her colleagues on the Hill. That's because California is the state of choice for an estimated 40 percent of the nation's legal and illegal immigrants, a disproportionate number of whom hail from south of the border.

The nation's most populous state has reached the tipping point with Mexican immigration. Every year, it adds not only 100,000 legal Mexican immigrants to its population, but also, it is estimated, just as many illegal Mexican immigrants.

Meanwhile, the quality of life further diminishes for the once-Golden State's native-born population.

"Massive illegal immigration from Mexico to California, coupled with a loss of confidence in the old melting pot model of transforming newcomers into Americans, is changing the very nature of the state," Hanson writes, in "Mexifornia."

Indeed, while Mexican immigrants come to America no more or less poor, no more or less uneducated than previous waves of immigrants, they are far more resistant to assimilating American culture.

Hanson notes that, of the millions of Mexican immigrants legally admitted to this country since 1982, only 20 percent had bothered to become citizens by 1997.

That resistance to fully assimilating into American society, the de-emphasis of "American" in Mexican-American, has impeded the Mexican immigrant population's upward mobility in California.

And that is borne out by data compiled by the Center for Immigration Studies, the Washington-based public policy group headed by immigration expert Mark Krikorian.

Some 65 percent of Mexican immigrants in California are high school dropouts, according to the center, compared to only 7 percent of the native-born population. Some 41 percent of Mexican immigrant households are on the public welfare rolls, compared to 14 percent of natives.

And the socio-economic status of Mexican immigrants barely improves over time.

In fact, nearly 55 percent of Mexican immigrants are living in or near poverty after residing here in this country more than 20 years. Some 45 percent are without health care after 20 years and 37 percent are still relying on welfare.

The reality is that second and third generation Mexican-Americans are barely better off than their forebears who immigrated to this country.

So why does America continue to allow the yearly influx of hundreds of thousands of Mexican immigrants, not just legal, but also illegal? Because there are interests on both the right and left that favor this nation's de facto open borders policy.

Conservative corporations, contractors and agribusiness demand cheap labor from Mexico, according to Hanson, no matter the social consequences. Meanwhile, so-called "progressive" academics, journalists, government bureaucrats and La Raza advocates see illegal immigrants as a vast new political constituency for those peddling the notion that victimhood, not citizenship, is the key to advancement.

The American public sees things different from both ideological camps.

Two-thirds believe the United States should set the goal of completely halting illegal immigration, according a Roper-ASW poll this past March. And nearly half say legal immigration levels should be decreased, according to a Gallup poll last month.

It's not that two-thirds of Americans are racists, or that half are xenophobic. It's just that they recognize that this nation, which admits more immigrants each year than any other, can no longer afford to be so overly magnanimous.

[VU4G10]

"La Raza advocates see illegal immigrants as a vast new political constituency"

al la Bustaman!

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

[ Some 41 percent of Mexican immigrant households are on the public welfare rolls, compared to 14 percent of natives. ]

[upchuck]

Pardon me for singing to the choir, but.

I am sick and tired of CRIMINAL aliens invading our country and politicans of all favors pandering to them and giving them all sorts of handouts.

[4.1O dana super trac pak]

And they are not even number one!

[Rabid Dog]

Some 65 percent of Mexican immigrants in California are high school dropouts, according to the center, compared to only 7 percent of the native-born population. Some 41 percent of Mexican immigrant households are on the public welfare rolls, compared to 14 percent of natives.

Do you know what is meant by "native-born" - does that mean any American? Also, does when the author talks about immigrant is he refering to lawful or unlawful?

[sarcasm]

Poverty and Income

Use of Means-Tested Programs

[Rabid Dog]

Great Links!

Wish we had that kind of break down on all our welfare recepients.

[Rabid Dog]

When you get a chance check the above links out - pretty impressive. Ever heard of the organization? If true, really astounding.

[LiteKeeper]

INTREP

[Malesherbes]

By one account when Federico de Jesus "stormed out" he paused long enough to pick up a piece of the pizza that someone had brought in.

[daviddennis]

I have no knowledge of their methodology or the way they conducted the survey, so I'm going to simply brush those questions away by assuming the figures in the article are roughly correct.

That being said, there is a significant problem with this survey: We are not comparing like with like. "Natives" covers everyone from the ghetto poor to A Jerrold Perenchio of Univision. The latter, of course, has gotten from being merely very rich to extremely rich by running Univision which provides Spanish language TV to Mexicans and others. He is one of that tenth of a percent or so who pays 38% of California income taxes; he wouldn't have that money or pay those taxes without illegals. His company has a lot of employees, and they wouldn't have their jobs without illegals.

A more relevent question in my mind would be "How do non-native poor compare to native poor?" That is, check out a ghetto resident with a high-school education, and compare him to a Mexican with a high-school education. Who's doing better? The survey doesn't say because it didn't ask.

Another big problem is that they do not try to measure gains by employers and customers. For example, let's say I go to a car repair shop that uses cheap illegal labor. I will get my car fixed, most likely for much less than a fully legal shop would have to charge. That money stays in my pocket and I can use it to buy more stuff.

Or let's say we have a greedy body shop owner. I come in and ask him to get that ding on my 1991 Mercedes fixed. He charges $60 an hour whether I get a native or illegal worker, and he pays the native $15 and illegal $5 an hour. Sounds bad, right? But he will wind up paying taxes on his profit, and those go straight into the Treasury and the State income tax gets a nice slice out of it.

So just because the illegal doesn't get paid well and doesn't pay taxes doesn't mean people don't pay taxes on those extra profits illegals help make.

I have a really tough time with the advocates of closing the borders and eliminating illegals, simply because I see them as people. Sometimes they do good things and other times bad; we should arrest the bad ones and help out the good. I don't think someone is "bad" just because he's on the other side of a border, nor do I think someone is "good" because he's on my side.

There are good people over there, and bad people, and I break the law ever day by driving at 80 on the freeway, just as a lot of other people do.

D

PS I know this topic generates millions of flames. I am happy to hear civilized disagreement, but if you simply want to say I'm an idiot for not agreeing with you, leave it to yourself. The more replies like that I receive, the more I feel illegals are getting a bum rap in this country.

[vikingcelt]

You may drive 80 miles per hour ever day on the freeway and break the law. I don't. You may want to believe that illegals contribute to our economy. I don't. You don't seem to have much, if any, respect for the rule of law or for our society. I have absolutely no sympathy for illegal aliens. They have no right to be here. They are invading our country, hurting our economy, disrespecting OUR culture (while they expect us to bend over backwards to try to understand THEIR culture), destroying our health care system, sometimes murdering American citizens, driving us from our homes (now WE have to emigrate to someplace else in the United States just to have a decent quality of life)...and all of this without having an ounce of respect for our country, our values and our laws. I woke up one day and there I was living right almost in the middle of "Tijuana"...seemed like it anyway. I was able to move fortunately. Many, many other people can't. If you don't see this as an unlawful and overwhelming INVASION of our country, then you must be blind.

[vikingcelt]

"the more I feel that illegals are getting a bum rap in this country." Just one more thing...couldn't seem to help myself or keep it to myself...as you requested. You are posting on a public forum you know. The people who are getting a "bum rap in this country" are the law abiding citizens of this country...both those who were born here and those who came here legally.

[Rabid Dog]

Because their poverty rates are so high, Mexican immigrants have substantially increased the overall size of the poor population in the United States. While Mexican immigrants and their U.S.-born children under age 18 account for 4.2 percent of the nation’s total population, they account for 3.3 million or 10.2 percent of the nation’s total poor population.

It would be kind of fun to pick the survey apart. Here it says that they account for 10.2 percent of the total poor population. Makes me wonder why we aren't worrying about the other 90%. Maybe we should be looking within our borders instead of outside of our borders.

I know many of the Mexicans that come up have about a 4th grade education - school is often not available down there and I believe it isn't free. Most kids have to work to support their families in Mexico and a lot of them work once they get up here. I'm sure a substandard education is a big component of the high poverty rate.

I just ordered that Mexifornia book - been wanting to get it for a while. I don't begrudge people coming up at all. I sure wouldn't sit on my butt and watch my family starve.

I know a lot of illegals and their life is exceptionally hard. I ask them why they don't go back home - they say it is much worse back in Mexico.

As a taxpayer I sure as heck resent paying for their medical services and educational services, but I resent paying for all the other people as well. My kids are in private school because the public school system is so bad. I pay cash for my medical services because my HMO is so lousy. The big problem is that we are turning into a Socialistic country.

I don't know who conducted the survey. The home page didn't have much information. Hard to tell if there was an agenda going. If it is true, then some real work need to be done at the legislative level. They are the bad guys - not the illegals.

[Rabid Dog]

I don't think they are invading our country - we are inviting them. Construction and agriculture and the hotel/tourist industry would be dead in the water without the labor pool. Supply and demand. We are providing the demand for cheap labor. They are supplying it.

[vikingcelt]

"I don't think they are invading our country - we are inviting them. Construction and agriculture and the hotel/tourist industry would be dead in the water without the labor pool." Well, that's might funny because where I live (which happens to be a tourist destination) the construction, agriculture and hotel/tourist industries are doing just fine without them. It's refreshing to see Americans doing those jobs...you know...those jobs that "Americans just won't do." That's why I now know that that particular line of BS is a lie. Everything is working just fine here and it's Americans doing all the work.

[daviddennis]

Think about this, though: Our own citizens have not respected our own culture.

Consider all the America-hating types in colleges all over the country. They are constantly preaching the idea that America is bad, and that virtually any other culture is good.

We didn't have an illegal immigration problem a generation ago, even though plenty of Mexicans crossed the border and started living here. I think that's because of changes in our educational system that TOLD US and people coming in that our culture was no good, and we should respect Mexico's!

I think the cultural problems we are facing - and let there be no doubt that they are real problems - are largely of our own making. The only way we can fix the problem is by looking at problems of our own institutions.

It's easy to blame things on Other People, as though Others are this evil remote group. But the truth is that we've done much of this to ourselves!

If we ignore OUR problems and concentrate on closing the border, we will have a closed border, will be unable to harvest our crops or fix our cars, and we will STILL have a diseased culture, bad schools and a corrupt welfare system!

My message to everyone is that we have to fix OUR systems. It is not the immigrant's fault that our systems are broke, and we shouldn't be punishing them for our failings.

I hope this has given you an interesting perspective.

D

[daviddennis]

One of my favourite rants is that there are some services that should be provided equally to all, but in LA County, these services are provided so poorly that we'd might as well forget the whole thing.

The best example is police, which is absolutely abysmal around here, and yet I'm paying taxes higher than virtually anywhere in the US. (I don't say we because I know you're in Ventura County someplace, but I'm sure you get the idea). Bel Air, which is part of the City of LA, is almost run by the Bel Air Patrol, acting as a proxy for the "real" police.

It's probably good to have "free" education, since otherwise we'll wind up being just like Mexico, but it sure would be nice if it actually taught people something. Otherwise, we'll become like Mexico in a few years :-(.

We pay huge gas taxes and get tattered roads in return. There are states with actual "weather", which creates far worse conditions for roads, with far better roads than us. Why?

I don't think it's illegals, since in my experience living in California, illegals have only been a major issue for the last ten years or so. I've lived here longer than that, and we have never had good police, good roads, or good schools.

There are two things I hate about the anti-illegal movement:

• They make it look like Republicans are bigots, while in reality bigotry crosses party lines.
• They give the schools, our health care establishment, our police and so on built in excuses. "Oh, things would be fine if we didn't have those illegals out there," they cry. And the anti-illegal crowd laps that all up and spits it out at us.

The problem is that it's not true. Our society has sicknesses in it that in the most pathological cases prevent government from working. And we stand around trying to find someone, anyone, to blame but ourselves.

But we're the only people who can even try to fix it.

D

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

Businesses should not encourage criminal activity. Crossing our nation's borders w/o going through the proper process is breaking our laws and therefore criminal.
It is a myth that illegals only take jobs that Americans won't. Bustamante said just that in the debate and it is a lie. He also said that they put $1400 more into the system than they receive; another lie.
Employment is the only way out of the inner-city and its myriad of problems. Unfortunately, the low-skilled jobs that were once plentiful are being taken by illegals. Businesses just love it when they are not required to pay taxes to illegals. $6/hr to an illegal equates to $10/hr with taxes & benefits to an American.
And, once a construction crew, janitorial crew, hotel crew, fast food crew, etc. become a "spanish-speaking only" crew, our low-skilled CITIZENS will not be hired.
A recent study on education and the costs of illegals concluded that California alone pays $2.2 billion a year to educate illegals. That does not count the cost of police, jails, prisons, hospitals, low-cost housing, welfare and our uninsured motorist insurance.

COMING TO AMERICA
Illegals crushing L.A. health system?
Report says 'epidemic' crisis threatens capacity to serve citizens
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34198

States pay $7.4 billion to educate illegals
Washington Times | 8/21/03 | Stephen Dinan
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/967750/posts

Illegals busting education budget
WND | 8-24-03 | Jon Dougherty
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/969513/posts

Home loans for illegal aliens?! - Michelle Malkin
TownHall.com | 8/29/03 | Michelle Malkin
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/972485/posts