CNN -- "How to be Gay 101"

CNN | August 19, 2003 | Daryn Kagan, CNN anchor

[AFA-Michigan]

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yep, you heard it here. Some of the kids going back to school this fall at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, will be able to take a course called "How to be Gay: Male Homosexuality and Initiation." Gary Glenn has been fighting the course for years. He is president of the American Family Association of Michigan. Now he's trying to get public pressure to pressure state officials to kill the course. He is with us tonight from Southfield, Michigan.

In Detroit, we have Jeffrey Montgomery. He is executive director of the gay rights group called the Triangle Foundation.

Gentlemen, good evening. Thanks for being with us.

GARY GLENN, PRES., AMERICAN FAMILY ASSOCIATION OF MICHIGAN: Hi, Daryn.

JEFF MONTGOMERY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TRIANGLE FOUNDATION: Good evening, Daryn.

KAGAN: Jeff, I'll start with you. You need a course? Who knew?

MONTGOMERY: That's a good question. Apparently we all do, because we even have television programs now which will redesign our lives by gay people. But seriously, it's not a course really, in how to be gay in the sense that this is some sort of lesson that's being given. It's a very important course, and a very instructive course and a very interesting course which looks into all sorts of elements of what, you know, gay culture is made of, and what it isn't made of. And it really does a great deal of work to look into common stereotypes, common thoughts, and really, there's a lot of questioning that goes on in this course. It's a very important offering.

KAGAN: So you're saying good course, catchy title, that's what's getting people's attention there?

Gary, let's bring you in here. You have courses where you have black studies. You have women's studies. Why not gay studies?

GLENN: Well, Daryn, I guess we can put one aspect of the homosexual debate to rest. As you opened up with, if you have to take a course from the University of Michigan to learn how to be gay, I guess that resolves the question of whether or not it's learned behavior or a behavioral choice.

But I've done talk radio for the last 48 hours in a dozen cities across America from Philadelphia to Denver. People across this country are laughing at the University of Michigan. And here in Michigan, taxpayers are outraged that their tax dollars are being used to teach young teenage males a class on how to be gay.

The course curriculum actually says -- quote -- "Just because you happen to be a gay man doesn't mean you don't have to learn how to become one. The course will examine the general topic of the role that initiation plays in the formation of gay identity, and the course itself will constitute an experiment in the very process of initiation it hopes to understand."

Taxpayers are outraged in this state that their tax dollars are being used to experiment in the lives of young teenage college students in the process of initiating them into a lifestyle of homosexual behavior. We think that's wrong.

KAGAN: Let me just jump in here just for a second, because we do want to say that we contacted the University of Michigan. They are tired of talking about it. So they have released a statement and I want to share that with our viewers.

They insist, and this is from one of the associate deans, they say, "This course is not about encouraging people to become gay, but how individuals in our society create meaning and beliefs about gay culture from literature and the arts," which Jeff seems to be where you were going with this, saying looking at gay culture.

But on the other hand, there is an argument, perhaps that is a legitimate course, but should taxpayers pay for that?

MONTGOMERY: Well, Daryn, if I can just say, I think that if any of us who are taxpayers in Michigan -- and let me correct a misconception. Taxpayers in Michigan are not outraged at this in any large number. I'm sure there are five or six that Mr. Glenn has talked to that are upset by it...

KAGAN: Jeff, do you really think that you can speak for all taxpayers in Michigan? I don't know if that's exactly the case. So let's skip to the argument of should taxpayers be paying for it.

MONTGOMERY: I think that if any taxpayer went through the entire University of Michigan course catalog, any one of us might find courses that we might not sign up for and might question that are in there. But I think that the role of a public university is to provide venues and to provide places where we can have exchange of ideas, thinking -- free thinking, and interchange and intercourse between people on these kinds of very important subjects. And that's what is the university is about. And I don't understand, really, and it baffles me, why people like Mr. Glenn are so upset that there's actually thinking and an exchange of ideas and investigating and intellectual pursuit going on on a university campus.

KAGAN: Gary, let me just bring you in on that. There are probably, if I go through the course catalog, a lot of classes I wouldn't want to take at the University of Michigan. For instance, chemistry. That doesn't mean they shouldn't teach it. So under the premise, if you don't want to take it, don't sign up, why not just allow it to take place?

GLENN: Well, the people who have to pay the bill are upset about it. Let me tell you how upset they are. When this class was first started, the Michigan House of Representatives came four votes short of actually cutting the university's budget by 10 percent because of this particular class. And you know no legislative body in America would take that kind of action if it wasn't getting heat from the people back home.

I just talked to a member of the Higher Education Subcommittee today who said he's going to introduce a constitutional amendment giving oversight authority to the elected officials in the legislature over the administration of our colleges and universities.

Let me tell you why people are so upset. The professor who teaches this class wrote in an Australian publication, "Let there be no mistake about it, lesbian and gay studies express an uncompromising political militancy. The fact is lesbian and gay studies is the academic wing of the lesbian, bisexual, gay and transgender movement."

Michigan taxpayers don't think they ought to be forced to pay to advance homosexual activists' militant political agenda. Those are the words of the professor, not ours.

KAGAN: And with that, I'm going to have to bring the discussion to a close. Of course, the professor is not here to talk about what he wrote or didn't write. The course goes on.

Gentlemen, I want to thank you for discussing the topic this evening. Appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

GLENN: Thank you, Daryn.

[Alouette]

Taxpayers in Michigan are not outraged at this in any large number.

Maybe because they don't know about it?

Damn, I am a Michigan taxpayer (married to a Wolverine and the offspring of a Wolverine) and now I am OUTRAGED.

Ann Arbor is the Berzerkley of the Midwest.

[CyberAnt]

My question is this: Haven't we been told time and time again - people are born this way ..?? If that's true - then why do they have classes on how to be ..??

[harmony]

Oh wow, you got onto CNN!

"KAGAN: ... Of course, the professor is not here to talk about what he wrote or didn't write. The course goes on."

Guess what? For those of you following this thread instead of the old one, the Professor himself has accepted an invitation to a public debate with Glenn and the AFA.

I posted Prof Halperin's email on the old thread at
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/966361/posts

CNN!

[AFA-Michigan]

Harmony's all excited now that he thinks he's arranged some sort of debate between AFA-Michigan (yours truly) and the "How to be Gay" professor. We'll find out in short order.

Notably, last week, following the front page story in the Washington Times, Professor Halperin REFUSED all interview requests by the media, including invitations to appear with me on Good Morning America and The Today Show. U-M officials similarly refused requests for interviews.

Perhaps the good Prof is only comfortable on his home court. Harmony has provided me his e-mail address. I'll let you know.

[AFA-Michigan]

Sent by e-mail at 9:45 pm Thursday, Sept. 4, 2003

Dear Professor Halperin,

We've exchanged "fire" indirectly for several years as the national news media has focused its spotlight on your class "How to be Gay: Male Homosexuality and Initiation," most recently in a front page story by the Washington Times and in coverage by the Fox News Channel, MSNBC, and CNN, and a couple dozen talk radio shows across the nation of which I'm aware. Even read about it Hong Kong and Bogata newspapers as well.

You've correctly noted that AFA-Michigan has felt no need whatsoever to discuss the class directly with you. Frankly, I'm no more interested in your "spin" after the fact than you are in the concerns we've raised about the appropriateness of the class at a tax-funded university. Your writings before the spotlight turned your way were more than sufficient to inform our position.

However, an online discussion forum has published what the poster purports to be an e-mail he received from you, expressing your willingness to engage in a public debate with me regarding the merits of "How to be Gay."

The posted message, identified as being written by you, reads as follows:

"I'm happy to debate Gary Glenn, but I don't take seriously his offer to debate me, as he's never made it to me personally, nor in three and a half years has he ever made the slightest effort to contact me in order to find out more about my course. In any case, none of this fuss will do anything to stop the progress of queer studies, which is powered by its own intellectual gains and won't be impeded by those outside the university who don't even bother to do their homework! Glenn and the AFA have never had the slightest effect on the University of Michigan, and they aren't likely to do so now."
(Online at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/966361/posts)

If the above comments are in fact yours, you appear to have changed your position in recent days, at least based on what I was told by a dozen or so reporters who said you refused all requests for interviews on the subject following the Times story, including invitations for joint appearances with me on Good Morning America and The Today Show, among others.

If you have in fact reversed course, we should advise those shows and other media outlets that you are now "happy to debate Gary Glenn." They told me they only wanted to cover the issue if they could have the two principals (you and I).

If for some reason you remain unwilling to discuss the class in media appearances, but are in fact willing to do so in a more formal debate in a different forum, I am also happy to do that (though I can't imagine that a head to head debate in any public forum wouldn't generate considerable media attention as well). I wouldn't have it any other way. The more Michigan taxpayers learn of this abusive waste of their tax dollars, the more pressure will build for a political response from those who control the University's purse strings.

Regardless, assuming you did in fact author the message as posted, where and when do you propose we hold our debate?

How about getting a room at or near the State Capitol in Lansing, so that members of the legislature, news media, and general public have easy access?

In hopes that you'll take this proposal seriously, I'm making it on the record, with a copy of this message going to Ann Arbor, Lansing, and Detroit news media as well as the Washington Times.

Gary Glenn, President
American Family Association of Michigan

[CyberAnt]

Well .. you can see it any way you want!

As for a "gay culture" - it's actually an agenda. If people would bother to study the stories of Sodom and Gomorreh, they would find out IT WAS EXACTLY THE SAME THING - a small group of people who were into the homosexual lifestyle and they CORRUPTED TWO WHOLE CITIES.

If you want to call that a "gay culture" - fine! I call it an AGENDA.

And .. what better AGENDA than to provide a class to try to snag more and more young people into accepting this type of lifestyle .. SICKENING!!

[GrandMoM]

The professor who teaches this class wrote in an Australian publication, "Let there be no mistake about it, lesbian and gay studies express an uncompromising political militancy. The fact is lesbian and gay studies is the academic wing of the lesbian, bisexual, gay and transgender movement." ....enough said!!!!!!

[AFA-Michigan]

"How to be Gay" professor responds to AFA-MI


Dear Mr. Glenn,

Thank you for your recent e-mail message. I’m very pleased that you have taken the step of getting in touch with me directly. (Yes, the posted message you quoted was indeed by me.)

I’m sorry that you’re not interested in finding out more about my course, "How to be Gay," or in discussing the class with me. You’re quite wrong when you imply that I’m not interested in the concerns you have raised about the appropriateness of my course. As someone who has devoted his life to teaching and scholarship, I’m very much interested in university education and in the ethics of the academic profession. If my course actually resembled the portrait you have painted of it, I would be every bit as scandalized by it as you have been. No university in the world would permit such a course, and no reputable scholar would teach it.

I wish I could have a chance to persuade you that your concerns about the appropriateness of my course are misplaced. I would be happy to meet with you to review the syllabus, to discuss the goals of the class, and to explain the purpose behind it. I would like to think that if you understood more about the course I am actually teaching, you would not be opposed to it.

But I really don’t see the point of this exercise if, as you write to me, you have no interest in hearing anything I might say.

I am copying this message to members of the administration at the University of Michigan so that there will be a record of my reply to you.

Yours,

David M. Halperin
W. H. Auden Collegiate Professor
of English Language and Literature
Professor of Women's Studies
University of Michigan
3187 Angell Hall
435 S. State Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1003

[AFA-Michigan]

Looks like the professor is not "happy to debate" after all. Harmony will be greatly disappointed.

[AFA-Michigan]

But we're not gonna let him off the hook that easy...

AFA-MICHIGAN RESPONDS TO PROFESSOR



Dear Professor Halperin,

Thank you for your response.

You're correct in that having read the course description and the syllabus, and having received first person reports from individuals who've attended your class, and having read your various explanations in dozens of media reports, I don't believe that our privately meeting to "discuss" your world-famous class is likely to generate any great new enlightenment or dissuade us from our view that it's a frivolous use of tax dollars.

However, please be assured that I am very interested in whatever you might have to say about the class in a free and open exchange, in a public forum, for public consumption, so that public policymakers and the public that foots the bill for the University of Michigan can judge for themselves the relative merits of your explanations and motives versus the concerns we've expressed.

You've confirmed that you wrote in the e-mail posted on the online discussion forum that you are "happy to debate Gary Glenn" regarding the class.

I did not interpret your declaration of being "happy to debate" as referring to a private exchange. I don't believe that's what you meant either. If so, surely you will disappoint those who think they've given me my comeuppance by passing on what they perceived to be your agreement to a public exchange.

But I truly do not wish to waste your time or mine further if your comments have been misinterpreted or if you've since changed your mind.

I've made crystal clear that I'm not interested in having you provide me a private personal presentation of your justifications for teaching U-M students "How to be Gay."

So that all concerned can be equally clear in reverse, are you or are you not "happy" and willing to publicly debate with me the merits of the class in a mutually agreeable public forum?

As a trade-off, if it'll make you feel better about the process, I'll be more than happy to acquiesce to your desire for a private presentation in advance of such a public debate, once it's scheduled and publicly advertised.

As previously stated, I believe the ideal location for a public exchange would be a room at or near the State Capitol in Lansing, so that members of the legislature, news media, and general public have easy access.

I have also cc'ed this message to the U-M administrators you referenced, as well as once again cc'ed U-M, Ann Arbor, Lansing, and Detroit news media.

Gary Glenn, President
American Family Association of Michigan