Plea for help turns deadly (police react to threat)

AZ Central ^

[Stew Padasso]

Parents call teen suicidal, police react to 'threat'

Parents' plea for help for their 15-year-old son, who was holding a kitchen knife and threatening suicide, turned deadly early Monday when Mesa police shot him in front of his family.

Westwood High School junior Mario Albert Madrigal Jr. was shot multiple times in the carport of his home near Dobson and Longmore roads in west Mesa after police said he came toward them with a knife "in a threatening manner."

[A.J.Armitage]

I find it hard to believe the cops would shoot the kid after he dropped the knife

I don't.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

Yeah, the kid's dad sure isn't being consistent here. He claimed that a cop shot the kid twice after he was already on the floor after dropping the knife. That's one hell of an accusation and his account of it is not consistent at all. Then the kid's dad starts talking about his kid being a normal and good kid even though the fatal confrontation happened because the kid was drunk and suicidal and he didn't want to be taken to alcohol rehab for the 2nd time in 2 months. Dad is all over the place here.

[I still care]

This is a far more common problem than people realize. A lot of times you need to call the police for help and end up very sorry you did.

A couple of years ago my bipolar husband was acting out, and I needed to get him to the hospital. Despite my asking for an ambulance, and help, the 911 operator decided we were all being killed (all the screaming from him while I was on the phone.)

The police came in and hauled him off to jail, despite mine and the kids pleas (and his!) that what he needed was to be brought to the ER.

After a night in jail, the expense of hiring an attorney, and endless anxiety and worry, the judge released him and he had to spend 2 MONTHS in the hospital because the day in jail without his medicine was the final coup de grace to his lithium level, and they couldn't get it back up.

My kids had to do without for a long time in order to pay the attorney. I am SO GLAD that the state saw fit to protect us out of new clothes and car repair that year! /sarcasm

My husband died a year later from medication problems. I am a lady, but if I ever see those cops again I would love to spit in their faces. They deserved it.

[El Laton Caliente]

The complete section of that stat goes on to say while LEO shoots the wrong person 11% of the time, non-criminal citizens shoot the wrong person less than 2% of the time.

There are several factors in this.

1. The armed citizen is normally on the scene from the start of the situation while the police have to enter the situation cold.

2. The police are now trained with more military-like tactics.

3. The general public is less likely to shoot before fully understanding the stituation (and more likely to take a wound or worse).

Remember the first police department was not formed until the 1840's. And, it was to control the unwashed masses of immigrants for the political bosses in NY, NY. From the same people who introduced gun control into the USA...

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

I was looking at it from the standpoint of there being too many witnesses around and the bullet angles and blood splashes would be a dead giveaway. But the cops have done more brazen things before.

There was a Dallas cop that was fired because he was caught on video pistol-whipping a handcuffed suspect. His colleagues came out in droves in his support and insisted he did nothing wrong even though his felony crime was caught on video (there was a solid 20 seconds of unbroken video before the beating started; the handcuffed suspect was not struggling or fighting in any way). The cop successfully sued to get his job back, was given a full official apology by the city, and was given full back-pay for the 4 years that he was an ex-cop. They also promoted him because he was "wrongfully" off the police force when the written test for sargeant came around. It's enough to make a guy sick.

[adam_az]

Police first went to the Madrigal home about 12:30 a.m. because the family called 911 when the son and father argued after the teen came home after having "six or seven" beers at a neighbor's home.

http://www.selfdefence.com/stun_gun_qa.htm#Drugs_or_Alcohol

Are They Effective On A Person Under The Influence Of Drugs Or Alcohol, And Can It Penetrate Clothing? ANSWER: Effects on a person under the influence can vary depending on the person. A Stun Gun can penetrate up to 2 inches of thick clothing.

No one's done a toxicology report yet, so who knows what he was really on. Speculation, but Methamphetamine is VERY popular in AZ especially among kids. No idea what his actual blood alcohol content was. No idea if the stun gun had an effective strike. I could see ONE cop overreacting to a kid on the floor - but ALL THREE AT THE SAME TIME? What, did they plan ahead of time to shoot the kid, before they even showed up? Not likely.

What about the neighbor? Which neighbor is letting a 15 year old kid drink a six-pack or more of beer, and why do the parents let the kid go over to the neighbors house? If they had control of their child, he would not have been drunk. If the parents let him go there knowing he would be drinking, then they are criminally neglectful parents.

Remember, the kid was armed with a knife, and was threatening to kill himself. He attacked three armed police officers with a knife who responded first NOT BY SHOOTING THEIR PISTOLS - BUT BY USING THE STUN GUN! If they wanted to kill the kid, they could have just shot him in the first place, since he put their lives in danger. At this point I give a higher likelihood to the officers story being true for these reasons.

I'm appalled to see the "blame the cop" mentality on this thread, before many of the facts are in.

You are acting like children. Turn off the "Rage against the Machine" CD, shut up, sit down, and do your homework.

[newgeezer]

Turn off the "Rage against the Machine" CD, shut up, sit down, and do your homework.

You neglected to mention the bong. ;O)

[INSENSITIVE GUY]

Well,they've already mastered the art of shooting the family dog!

[ZviTheWise]

"Turn off the "Rage against the Machine" CD, shut up, sit down, do your homework..."

... and bend over and take this nightstick where I tell you to take it.

[Leatherneck_MT]

This is the very kind of thing that gets officers killed in the Line of Duty. Not from Criminals, but from the citizens they are there to protect. Jack booted thugs come in all shapes and sizes. Even local ones. If this were a 15 year old Kid, the officers had no business pulling their guns on him unless HE had a gun as well.

These bastards should be relieved at least, jailed next, or executed for murder at worst.

[adam_az]

Clever, that you picked on the joke but didn't comment on the serious points my post.

Not so wise today, Zvi!

[in the Arena]

If I'm not mistaken, the officers are trained to empty their magazines.

You're mistaken...

[Traffic_Can]

Sorry, my bad.

[Moosefart]

I find it hard to believe the cops would shoot the kid after he dropped the knife

I dont......

Title: Police shoot handcuffed man in the back 12 times (Police State) Date: Monday December 09 2002 @ 10:48AM PST Author: not in mourning (not_in_mourning@yahoo.com)

Louisville KY: The community is outraged over the shooting death of James Edward Taylor, 50, who was shot in the back by police after he had been handcuffed.

Police acknowledged that Taylor had been shot after being handcuffed, but claimed that he had somehow pulled a knife and was slashing at officers -- while his hands were handcuffed behind his back -- who then had no choice but to shoot Taylor 12 times after being allegedly "backed into a corner" by him.

No one can understand how trained police officers could first fail to pat down a man they are arresting and then fail to disarm him with their chemical weapons or batons after he was handcuffed.

There are only two options here: either the police are unbelievably cowardly and incompetent, or they are cold-blooded killers. There is no other option.

Louisville police have shot and killed numerous men over the past few years. Rodney Abernathy, a mentally ill man armed with a car jack, was killed in June 2000. In January 2001, Clifford Lewis was killed when he allegedly pinned an officer between his vehicle and a police car. One month later in February 2001, Antwan Bryant was killed when the driver of the car he was riding in allegedly ran over a cop's feet. The cop shot at the driver but killed Antwan. And in August 2002, Marshall Mably was shot 16 times in his car when cops thought he was aiming a rifle at them. The "rifle" turned out to be a BB gun, and some witnesses said that the police placed the gun in the car after the shooting. Mably, like Abernathy and Taylor, had a history of mental illness.

[Stew Padasso]

There is good reason to examine what LE is up to, and yes, all the facts will shake out.

Apparently, the family reached out to the police to help. Again, we shall see.

There are plenty of examples of corrupt, negligent, arrogant, stupid and useless cops to cite as examples as to why we should have a healthy examiniation of anything LE is up to. You don't like it? Tough!

[in the Arena]

Although it would many times seem to be the case :O)

I believe it was in Mesa a few years back where a city cop hit the go fast button on his MP5 into the back window of a vehicle that had tried to run...two dead kids...

[Stew Padasso]

Interesting. Thanks.

[adam_az]

Can you point out to where I said that I don't want there to be an investigation? Which post number would that be?

[in the Arena]

There it is...

Passenger's ride ended in flurry of police bullets

[Little Ray]

Call it evolution in action.