Mark Steyn: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss

The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 08/23/03 | Mark Steyn

[JusPasenThru]

BTTT.

[duckbutt]

Once more, Mark hits the bullseye! Wow! I wish that Fox would have him on as a commentator -- don't know how many Steyn fans there are out there beyond the Freepers -- - this guy is cutting, witty and surgical!

Man oh man, my dear 80 year old democratic mamma is going to get a copy of this....she thinks Clinton walked on water and Bush has done everything wrong since coming to office (illegially, in her mind).

Oh well, if she cuts me out of the inheritance (2 bedroom home in North St. Louis county)then that's that! I'd do whatever I can for my mom, seriously.....but we part on politics......she's a dear, but a die-hard Roosevelt demo.....

[secret garden]

Ping for a good read.

[maica]

Thanks for the data. I have ceased being amazed at how quickly questions on FR get answered. Now It is an expectation!! LOL!

[MightyMouseToSaveThe Day]

Brian, you think the French are lying about that many deaths? They made up those numbers? What about the stories of gymnasiums being used to refrigerate corpses because there werent' enough coffins to go 'round and because vacationing families didn't want to interrupt their vacations to deal with funerals? I'm just asking if you think all that's made up? I'm not challenging you because I wouldn't put it past the French to lie--but that's an enormous lie! They haven't yet blamed it on Bush, but Chirac is getting a fair amount of flak for it, so it would seem that if the lie's intent was to blame the US somehow, it's backfiring, no? Just wondering what you're thinking...

[Brian Allen]

Do you think its hot in England this summer?

Belgium?

Luxemburg?

Germany?

Holland?

Switzerland?

Or just in France?

Did chiraq interupt his canadian holiday the other day to piss and moan about the loss of un lives in Baghdad -- or cancel it to go home to take care of his electorate [Which is suffering more casualties than it took before it surrendered in WW-II] -- and figger out how to draft a surrender to the sun?

While you're figgering all of that, I'll stick with my previous remark.

<]:^)~< ......... B A

[MightyMouseToSaveThe Day]

Brian, what are you talking about? in my original post, i SAID that it's been hot all over and that I didn't believe that only France has suffered so many thousands of deaths when it doesn't happen elsewhere.

My question to you was simply do you think France is LYING about 13,000 deaths just to make Bush look bad? did they make up that number and get lots of other industries (undertakers, nursing homes, apartment complexes, schools, etc) to go along with those manufactured numbers? That's what i was asking--you think it's a giant conspiracy, and that there really haven't been any deaths in France? That, to me, is an even more mind-boggling concept than 13,000 deaths!

[Republican Red]

I am having a hard time believing that 10,000 people have died from the heat. Some one explain that to me, please.

I first heard that thousands died from dehydration. I couldn't figure how in a modern city these people couldn't find a cup of water. I later heard that August is vacation time in France. The whole country shuts down and goes on holiday. However, these slime balls left their elderly and sick to fend for themselves. Many of the deaths are those that needed help from family, neighbors or government.

[Brian Allen]

<< Brian, what are you talking about? >>

Sorry I introduced a little common sense into the tread.

Try to not be too overwraught by your inability to process and/or to handle it.

[xsmommy]

thanks, steyn is so good!

[Michael_S]

... ergo people are dropping dead left and right all over France.

Don't you mean left and more to the left.

[mardler]

I knew my actuarial education would come in handy some day! Let me try to explain. France has about 45m people, give or take a few. Life expectancy is about 75 years. So, on average 1/75th of the population dies every year (for the purists among you, I knnow this isn't exact, but bear with me).

1/75th of 45m is about 600,000 people, or about 50,000 per month.

In the course of a month, to have an additional 10,000 people die isn't that exceptional. Actuaries know that mortality fluctuates with the weather. People have to die sometime - the exceptional hot weather, or cold weather, just pushes people off the edge of the mortality table. Many don't die directly from the hot weather, but from other conditions exacerbated by it.

Let's not forget too that it's all about what you're used to. I lived in Hong Kong for a while, and was astonished that seven people died directly from hypothermia one wintry week when the temperature reached a chilly 45!

[Paul Ross]

BTTT- What more can one say?

[Sarah]

The French in general take more personal care of their elderly than in the States. I'm not here to explain or defend the effects of the heat on the elderly, it was really incapacitating, even frightening, we literally had bottles of water constantly in the freezer and drank over 4 liters a day, and we're young and healthy. We were completely drained and lethargic. I'm sure that if anyone on vacation could imagine the real effects of the heat they would have returned.
I'm just amazed at how many of the French have their elderly mothers (usually mothers...) living at home with them. There is a special stipend for elder care, but there isn't any options like medicaid-funded elder care, let alone affordable private homes, not at all. The vast majority are taking care of their own remarkably well.
Now to gripe about other problems of the French, especially their worthless leaders, I'm right with you there...

[Verginius Rufus]

The Celsius temperature scale makes people complacent. 28 degrees Celsius equals 82 degrees Fahrenheit, which isn't bad, but get up to 38 degrees C and the real temperature is 100...a piddling little number like 38 doesn't sound like much but your life could be in danger. If the good Lord had wanted us to use Celsius he wouldn't have given us the Fahrenheit scale.

[diotima]

Ping a ling!

[Miss Marple]

How interesting. What exactly was the temperature in France? Are you telling me that the heat was worse than central Indiana (my home), Texas, or Florida?

Your comment on the elderly seems to me to indicate they have no mechanism for elder care other than the children, whether they like it or not. That does not indicate a national respect and care for the elderly to me, but rather a government policy that depends on the families, regardless of whether or not they are willing or suitable care-givers.

Why didn't the government set up cooling areas and announce their locations to the public? Why didn't their government announce to radio stations located in popular vacation areas that there was a danger and that people should check on their relatives? Why did people on vacation not return home to care for their parents?

[Angel]

Thank you so much mardler. That is the best explanation I've heard. I must admit this whole 10,000 people dying has really been bothering

[Sarah]

I can't tell you the temperature, I know it was in all the papers. I can't even explain how it was so unbearable. I lived many places, years in the middle east... maybe it was the complete lack of respite, NO ONE has air conditioners, as the heat is usually bearable and electricity is more expensive than in the States.
I'll agree with you that there is a general expectation that each will take care of their own, (which generally would make that praise-worthy on FR...) and I've seen so often the extents to which families go to include their elderly in all aspects of their lives, accompanying them shopping, helping them to live on their own as long as possible... and the fact that the French are not as wealthy as Americans means that most of that work is done by family members, not 'help' (legal or not...)
Besides that, I agree. You are right that the government did nothing to take charge after they must have been alerted to the increase rate of deaths.
We also were astonished to hear that the discomfort we were experiencing had actually led to deaths.