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To: DittoJed2
Is there any evidence that would cause you to abandon the theory of evolution and accept a literal Genesis account of creation? If so, second question, what kind of evidence would it take. Please describe.

Er, if I may offer two cents to the discussion…

I am from the Creation/Intelligent Design camp and thus the challenge was not addressed to me --- however I believe there are a few things which would get the attention of the science community. For instance:

1. If the sound waves in the Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation which were captured when light formed and went its way actually said something from Genesis in an ancient Hebrew dialect, e.g. “In the beginning, God created” or “Let there be light” etc. --- then I believe the rabbis and Christian theologians would be asked to the table to help figure it all out.

2. If the research into biogenesis/abiogenesis or the big bang concluded that there was a substantial algorithm necessary to initiate life or the universe, e.g. process, conditionals, recursives, autonomy, symbolizations – then I believe the intelligent design scientists would be asked to the table as well.

3. If the scientists were faced with an undeniable miraculous event which specifically tied back to the Bible – something stronger than the Bible Code or the Shroud of Turin -- then they would question materialist epistemology altogether.

Personally, I do not believe God will allow any of this to happen – or reveal Himself so directly before the time comes. I say this because it would work against faith and would be inconsistent with the Word in 1 Cor 1:21-29 and Matt 13:10-11.

1,398 posted on 08/19/2003 11:41:35 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Personally, I do not believe God will allow any of this [a few things which would get the attention of the science community] to happen – or reveal Himself so directly before the time comes.

Therein lies some kind of argument that God expects, or at least allows, the enterprise of science to persevere without encountering any contradictions.

1,399 posted on 08/19/2003 11:49:54 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; DittoJed2
I am from the Creation/Intelligent Design camp and thus the challenge was not addressed to me --- however I believe there are a few things which would get the attention of the science community. For instance:

1. If the sound waves in the Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation which were captured when light formed and went its way actually said something from Genesis in an ancient Hebrew dialect, e.g. “In the beginning, God created” or “Let there be light” etc. --- then I believe the rabbis and Christian theologians would be asked to the table to help figure it all out.

2. If the research into biogenesis/abiogenesis or the big bang concluded that there was a substantial algorithm necessary to initiate life or the universe, e.g. process, conditionals, recursives, autonomy, symbolizations – then I believe the intelligent design scientists would be asked to the table as well.

3. If the scientists were faced with an undeniable miraculous event which specifically tied back to the Bible – something stronger than the Bible Code or the Shroud of Turin -- then they would question materialist epistemology altogether.

Personally, I do not believe God will allow any of this to happen – or reveal Himself so directly before the time comes. I say this because it would work against faith and would be inconsistent with the Word in 1 Cor 1:21-29 and Matt 13:10-11.

First, to DittoJed, thank you for your thoughtful and civil comments. Although I am of the evolutionist camp [to a point-- see below], I am sorry that some have responded to you in a discourteous way.

Although I am spiritually in a different place from both you and Alamo-Girl-- I am a Jew, not a Christian, and I am a theistic evolutionist-- I share some of Alamo-Girl's sentiments.

Specifically, I believe that God created the heavens and the earth; that, in the moment of that creation, He created the laws of nature; and that, since that time, he has acted consistently within those laws to achieve His ends. (As the Talmud says, "all miracles were performed in a natural way.") I thus think that Intelligent Design theory might well at some time find stronger evidence of God's design in our universe. But, as others have posted, it is extraordinarilly unlikely that there will ever be evidence for the literal truth of Genesis 1; it contradicts too many of the observations we have already made. But God did not give us the Torah to teach us history or science; He gave us the Torah to teach us how to live our lives.

1,403 posted on 08/19/2003 12:03:42 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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