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To: Alamo-Girl; DittoJed2
I am from the Creation/Intelligent Design camp and thus the challenge was not addressed to me --- however I believe there are a few things which would get the attention of the science community. For instance:

1. If the sound waves in the Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation which were captured when light formed and went its way actually said something from Genesis in an ancient Hebrew dialect, e.g. “In the beginning, God created” or “Let there be light” etc. --- then I believe the rabbis and Christian theologians would be asked to the table to help figure it all out.

2. If the research into biogenesis/abiogenesis or the big bang concluded that there was a substantial algorithm necessary to initiate life or the universe, e.g. process, conditionals, recursives, autonomy, symbolizations – then I believe the intelligent design scientists would be asked to the table as well.

3. If the scientists were faced with an undeniable miraculous event which specifically tied back to the Bible – something stronger than the Bible Code or the Shroud of Turin -- then they would question materialist epistemology altogether.

Personally, I do not believe God will allow any of this to happen – or reveal Himself so directly before the time comes. I say this because it would work against faith and would be inconsistent with the Word in 1 Cor 1:21-29 and Matt 13:10-11.

First, to DittoJed, thank you for your thoughtful and civil comments. Although I am of the evolutionist camp [to a point-- see below], I am sorry that some have responded to you in a discourteous way.

Although I am spiritually in a different place from both you and Alamo-Girl-- I am a Jew, not a Christian, and I am a theistic evolutionist-- I share some of Alamo-Girl's sentiments.

Specifically, I believe that God created the heavens and the earth; that, in the moment of that creation, He created the laws of nature; and that, since that time, he has acted consistently within those laws to achieve His ends. (As the Talmud says, "all miracles were performed in a natural way.") I thus think that Intelligent Design theory might well at some time find stronger evidence of God's design in our universe. But, as others have posted, it is extraordinarilly unlikely that there will ever be evidence for the literal truth of Genesis 1; it contradicts too many of the observations we have already made. But God did not give us the Torah to teach us history or science; He gave us the Torah to teach us how to live our lives.

1,403 posted on 08/19/2003 12:03:42 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Lurking Libertarian; Dittojed
Thank you so very much for your post! I too regret any discourteous remarks made to DittoJed.

I am very glad that we are close in how we view things.

I understand that most in the theistic evolution camp do not see God "tinkering" with Creation after He set it in motion. On that particular point we disagree in that I believe He has tinkered with it; however, being all-powerful and outside space/time He might have also removed much of the evidence.

Even so, I am still wondering about some things as vague evidence of tinkering: punctuated equilibrium, the rise of functional complexity and the Cambrian explosion, i.e. no new body plans thereafter despite mass extinctions.

1,407 posted on 08/19/2003 12:24:59 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Lurking Libertarian; Alamo-Girl
Thank you for your courteous reply! I try to remain civil, unless someone has been less than civil. I may not always succeed at that , but I try.

I find the work being done by I.D. proponents very interesting. I also think a few Y.E. Creationists are a bit sloppy in some of the evidence they choose to use. I don't say either group is 100% right on their interpretations of evidence, but I believe the Genesis account. For Alamo Girl, I disagree with most theistic evolutionists on theological grounds. That is, death was a part of the curse that came on Adam. Before that time, the New Testament indicates that there was no death. The Old Testament doesn't allow for death prior to Adam either. If you have death prior to Adam, then there wasn't a curse due to sin and frankly I don't see how God's creation could have been "very good". You would have no need for redemption from a curse, since there wouldn't be a curse.

For Lurking Libertarian, I respect your Jewish Beliefs, but believe Moses took the creation story literally as evidenced not only by is editing of the book of Genesis but also evidenced by the 4th commandment itself. We can agreeably disagree here.
1,411 posted on 08/19/2003 12:37:44 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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