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White without Apology
TooGoodReports ^ | 08/13/03 | Bernard Chapin

Posted on 08/13/2003 6:57:47 AM PDT by bedolido

While doing my weekly shopping at the Jewel-Osco, I overheard a very unusual conversation. It was between two young baggers who were talking about an article one of them had read regarding President Lincoln. Both men happened to be black. One of them informed the other that President Lincoln cared nothing about blacks and was actually a racist. I was stunned. I wanted to interject a million things to their discussion but I didn’t. Instead, I silently watched the checker ring up my order. The incident immediately brought to mind the old commercial from the seventies where tears run down the eye of an Indian brave as he paddles across a river filled with pollutants. I felt like that Indian as I listened to President Lincoln, the man who freed the slaves, badmouthed by a couple of assistants in a grocery store.

This was the same Lincoln who, during a triumphant walk through Richmond, told a group of bowing slaves to get up because the only king they should bow to was Jesus Christ. I wanted to explain to the clerks that men should be judged by the standards of the days in which they live. Some of Lincoln’s opinions may seem outlandish today, but during the 1860’s he was one of the most enlightened men on the continent. By the standards of the nineteenth century, black Americans had no better friend than Abraham Lincoln.

Race is the biggest taboo issue in America today. Almost everyone acknowledges this but acknowledgement does not make our dialogues any smoother. I discovered this for myself the other day after I wrote a column about rap music. It was a favorable elaboration upon one wrote for City-Journal by John McWhorter. Based on my observations of urban youth, I supported McWhorter’s claim that rap music keeps blacks down through its celebration of pointless rebellion, violence, and nihilism. I received many irate responses. One of them turned into a ten email debate with a reader. By the end of the discussion, we knew a great deal about one another and, vicariously, quite a bit about discussing race in America.

Our little dispute could well have been a microcosm of the nation as a whole. It is unfortunate that I, and numerous other Caucasians, do not always emphatically state our views when asked. Yet, there are major hazards to beware of when addressing race. You never know what the reaction of the person you’re speaking to may be and no one wants to get fired over a conversation.

I could tell that the young man at the other end of the server was not used to dealing with white people like me. He only knows whites who defer to him and agree when he says that he has been wronged. He has been conditioned into thinking that all whites will apologize for their ancestry. I, absolutely, and under no circumstance, will ever apologize for my ancestors. In fact, thank G-d for my ancestors! I wish there were more Americans like them.

He began our exchange by telling me that I shouldn’t be writing about rap music at all as I don’t know anything about it. He also believes that there is nothing wrong with it and that it doesn’t harm anyone. I countered by stating that, while it’s true that I don’t know all the names of the famous rappers, I have unfortunately been subjected to a ton of it and know firsthand adolescents who emulate the words and actions of their favorite stars.

The dialogue went downhill from there (if that’s possible). There was practically no common ground between us, yet I think that is how it should be. White Americans, if they honestly responded to the claims of black separatists and black powerites, would hear little with which to agree.

Most Caucasian Americans are hard-working and middle class. There are very few like Bill Gates or Paul Allen. Most of us make a decent wage and are content with it. We oppress no one. No ancestors of mine were in the United States before 1910, but, even if they were, it would be superfluous as I personally have committed no wrongs to anyone. I told the young man that white guilt is one of the most pernicious influences within our society. Although this white guilt has not hurt our economic success, it has made many whites regard themselves as being morally inferior to the rest of the population.

He made the point that “institutional racism” is the reason many blacks “have not made it.” I told him there was no such thing. It is a creation of the university Marxists who have substituted “African-Americans, Hispanics, women and gays” for the word “proletariat.” The entire concept of “oppressed” and “oppression” is merely idiotic Marxist claptrap. It’s a product of juvenile leftists and should be disregarded. Besides, if there were such a thing as institutional racism no blacks would have ever made it. They’re be no Cedric the Entertainer’s, Deion Sanders’, Tiger Woods’ or Halle Berry’s. If there were any truth in the flawed rubric of institutional racism, all the aforementioned successful blacks would have been poor sharecroppers rather than cultural icons.

We, of course, also clashed on affirmative action. He regarded it as a prerequisite for black success. He said, “The Supreme Court finally got it right.” I, on the other hand, think, “The Supreme Court wrote more legislation.” Clearly, affirmative action is one of the reasons blacks have not been more successful since 1970. You can’t put an average student in Cal Tech and expect them to flourish. They fail and the race hustlers could care less how the experience impedes their future development. Even more grievous, is that affirmative action gives racism the imprimatur of the state. A federal stamp of approval compounds its evil.

Towards the end of our exchange, the reader admitted that he felt blacks should not have to work more than one job and do overtime to get ahead in life. Their route should be more direct. He felt long hours were for immigrants and that “we’ve already played that game.” He argued that blacks have put their blood and sweat into this country’s infrastructure and deserve reparation for their effort.

Honestly, I have no respect for this argument whatsoever. The request for reparations could not be less valid. Blacks in America already have the world’s greatest reparation: United States citizenship. Every single one of the reader’s racial cousins in Africa, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, would kill to be in his shoes. They would stow away in a mouse trap just to get here and have an opportunity to be Americans. Most of them fantasize about an existence without murderous kleptomaniac dictators and having children who are free from disease. America is opportunity and blacks are no different from whites in that we all should be forever thankful that we somehow got to these shores.

I discovered that I profited greatly from this reader. Christopher Hitchens, in his fascinating book, Letters to a Young Contrarian, informs us that the great thing about argumentation is that both sides refine and modify their positions which doing it. I hold this to be true and my exchange with the young man is evidence of it.

In this particular argument, I realized something that I never had before. Clearly, it is conservatives like me who care about poor blacks (most, in fact, are middle class) as opposed to the pseudo-liberals. We offer them the best route for advancement. We want to challenge them and make them stronger. We resist the desire to infantilize them. By treating them like adults and inculcating responsibility through achievement, they will prosper just as every other group of Americans have before them.

My opponent, perhaps unconsciously, wants them to stay poor so he can continue to berate America and critique our way of life. Were their lot to suddenly improve, he’d have no positions and no identity.

Before this conversation, I never realized just how much that I am rooting for poor black folks. I want them to be as productive as everyone else and to “make it” in America. I want no less for them than I do for myself. It would please me to no end if all our citizens were grateful for what they have. No white people get anything out of a major percentage of the population being resentful and angry.

Racial harmony can only be achieved if we treat one another as individuals and not as members of fictitious classes. If you want to be oppressed you’ll find a way to be oppressed, and such a condition damages society as a whole. Racism is wrong in any of its manifestations. We will never all get along if we continue to pretend that some of us, due to the melanin content in our skin, are better than others. Period.

To comment on this article or express your opinion directly to the author, you are invited to e-mail Bernard at bchapafl@hotmail.com .


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: apology; oppression; race; victimhood; white; without
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To: mhking
What? Me, polite? Guess I'm losing my touch. ;-)
61 posted on 08/13/2003 8:54:26 AM PDT by rdb3 (I'm not a complete idiot. Several parts are missing.)
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To: A_perfect_lady
By the way, I don't think we want reparations and the only apology I want is from the African Nations that facilitated slavery because they have never acknowledged any responsibility . There is no amount you could pay to erase the stain of slavery...just give me the courtesy of being honest and saying it was not such a good thing or you would have wanted to be a slave yourself....All I have ever asked for is equal protection and opportunity and please...don't let it happen again....

62 posted on 08/13/2003 8:55:30 AM PDT by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: Huck
I hadn't realized Lew Rockwell was actually a black grocery store clerk, and leave it at that.

Lew Rockwell is too surly and rude to last very long in a well-managed supermarket.

63 posted on 08/13/2003 8:59:20 AM PDT by jimt
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To: dwd1
Why did the South lack manpower? Why couldn't they do anything about the Naval blockade? Why did they lack quality manufacturing capability? Because an agrarian economy can't compete with an idustrial economy.

Look, I'm just sick of this BS. I am beginning to feel VERY dismissive and unsympathetic, because the black American community has drained the sympathy right out of me with their attitude that all whites all over the world are culpable for slavery. Blacks and Arabs in Africa own slaves to this very day! If you don't like slavery, don't embrace Marxism. The fact that black Americans are embracing it with both arms as well as working hard to make sure that white Americans are forced to work to support them via social programs tell me that they have nothing against slavey at all. They just want to be the masters, that's all.

64 posted on 08/13/2003 9:03:48 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
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To: dwd1
As black conservatives we are never going to have credibility if we accept the opinion of a revisionist who denies that black people have been treated unfairly by both political parties at times when it served their needs.

Preach, preacher!

But let me interject this l'il tidbit: We're not "black conservatives." We're "conservative blacks."

Let that marinate.

65 posted on 08/13/2003 9:04:55 AM PDT by rdb3 (I'm not a complete idiot. Several parts are missing.)
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To: dwd1
And the nerve of you to say "don't let it happen again." It's all Africa's fault, frankly. And they're still doing it!
66 posted on 08/13/2003 9:06:42 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
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To: Huck
I'll just make a crack and say I hadn't realized Lew Rockwell was actually a black grocery store clerk, and leave it at that.

Isn't it funny how radicals at either end of the spectrum both require factious history to support their ideology? In this case, they live the same fiction.

67 posted on 08/13/2003 9:08:15 AM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Lazamataz
Keep your finger off the button and step away, hands in the air.
68 posted on 08/13/2003 9:16:05 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree. Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
LOL! This is gonna be fuuuunnn...... :o)
69 posted on 08/13/2003 9:16:49 AM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: squidly
Correct. Lincoln freed the slaves, (the southern ones, anyway) for political reason, not for moral ones. The northern slaves weren't freed until after his death.

The president had no power whatsoever to interfere with the institution of slavery during the normal administration of the government. President Lincoln worked hard for passage of the 13th and 14th amendments. He freed the slaves in the insurgent area under the war power granted the president in the Constitution.

Lincoln wrote two famous letters on this subject.

To James Conkling:

"But to be plain, you are dissatisfied with me about the negro. Quite likely there is a difference of opinion between you and myself upon that subject. I certainly wish that all men could be free, while I suppose that you do not. Yet I have neither adopted nor proposed any measure, which is not consistant even with your view, provided you are for the Union. I suggested compensated emancipation; to which you replied you wished not to be taxed to buy negroes. But I had not asked you to be taxed to buy negroes, except in such way, as to save you from greater expense, to save the Union exclusively by other means. You dislike the emancipatio proclamation; and perhaps, would have it retracted. You say it is unconstitutional--I think differently. I think the Constitution invests the commander in chief with the law of war, in time of war.

The most that can be said, if so much, is, that slaves are property. Is there--has there ever been--any question that by the law of war, property, both of enemies and friends, may be taken when needed? And is it not needed whenever taking it helps us, or hurts the enemy?

....but the proclamation, as law, either is valid, or it is not valid. If it is not valid, it needs no retraction. If it is valid, it can not be retracted, any more than the dead can be brought to life....The war has certainly progressed as favorably for us, since the issue of the proclamation as before. I know as fully as one can know the opinions of others that some of the commanders of our armies in the field who have given us some of most important successes, believe the emancipation policy and the use of colored troops, constitute the heaviest blow yet dealt the rebellion, and that at least one of those important successes could not have been achieved when it was but for the aid of black soldiers....I submit these opinions as being entitled to some weight against the objections, often urged, that emancipation, and arming the blacks, are unwise as military measures, and were not adopted, as such, in good faith. You say you will not fight to free negroes. Some of them seem willing to fight for you; but no matter. Fight you then, exclusively to save the Union...

negroes, like other people act upon motives. Why should they do anything for us if we will do nothing for them? If they stake their lives for us, they must be prompted by the strongest motive--even the promise of freedom. And the promise, being made, must be kept....peace does not appear as distant as it did. I hope it will come soon, and come to stay; and so come as to worth the keeping in all future time. It will have then been proved that, among free men, there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and that they who take such appeal are sure to lose their case, and pay the cost. And then, there will be some black men, who can remember that, with silent tongue, and clenched teeth, and steady eye, and well-poised bayonet they have helped mankind on to this great consumation; while, I fear, there will be some white ones, unable to forget that, with malignant heart, and deceitful speech, have strove to hinder it. Still let us not be over-sanguine of a speedy final triumph. Let us be quite sober. Let us dilligently apply the means, never doubting that a just God, in his own good time, will give us the rightful result."

8/24/63

And to A. G. Hodges:

"You ask me to put in writing the substance of what I verbally said the other day, in your presence, to Governor Bramlette and Senator Dixon. It was about as follows:

"I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. And yet I have never understood that the presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act upon this judgment and feeling. It was in the oath I took, that I would, to the utmost of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. I could not take the office without taking the oath. Nor was it my view that I might take an oath to get power, and break the oath in using the power. I understood too, that in ordinary civil administration this oath even forbade me to practically indulge my primary abstract judgment on the moral question of slavery. I have publically declared this many times, and in many ways. And I aver that, to this day, I have done no official act in mere deference to my abstract judgment and feeling on slavery.

I did understand however that my oath to preserve the constitution to the best of my ability, imposed upon me the duty of preserving by every indispensible means, that government--that nation--of which that constitution was the organic law. Was it possible to lose the nation, and preserve the constitution? By general law life and limb must be protected; yet often a limb must be amputated to save a life; but a life is never wisely given to save a limb. I felt that measures, otherwise unconstitutional, might become lawful, by becoming indispensible to to the preservation of the of the Constitution, through the preservation of the nation. Right or wrong, I assumed this ground, and now avow it...

When in March, and May and July 1862 I made earnest, and succcessive appeals to the border states to favor compensated emancipation, I believed the indispensable neccessity for military emancipation and arming the blacks would come, unless averted by that measure. They declined the proposition; and I was, in my best judgment, driven to the alternative of either surrendering the Union, and with it the Constitution, or of laying strong hand upon the colored element. I chose the latter. In choosing it, I hoped for greater gain than loss; but of this, I was not entirely confident. More than a year of trial now shows no loss by it in our foreign relations, none in our home popular sentiment, none in our white military force, no loss any how or any where. On the contrary, it shows a gain of quite one hundred and thirty thousand soldiers, seamen and laborers. These are palpable facts, about which there can be no cavilling. We have the men; and we could not have them without the measure.

And now let any Union man who complains of the measure, test himself by writing down in one line that he is for subduing the rebellion by force of arms; and in the next, that he is for taking these hundred and thirty thousand men from the Union side, and placing them where they would be but for the measure he condemns. If he can not face his case so stated, it is only because he can not face the truth.

I add a word which was not in the verbal conversation. In telling this tale I attempt no compliment to my own sagacity. I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me. Now, at the end of three years struggle the Nation's condition is not what either party, or any man devised, or expected. God alone can claim it. Whither it is tending seems plain. If God now wills the removal of a great wrong, and wills also that we of the North as well as you of the South, shall pay for our complicity in that wrong, impartial history will find therein new cause to attest and revere the justice and goodness of God."

4/4/64

Quoted from "Lincoln; Speeches and Writings, 1859-65, Library of the Americas, D. Fehrenbacher, ed.

Walt

70 posted on 08/13/2003 9:16:58 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: =Intervention=
You don't show any evidence of continuing "institutional racism." All of your examples date to 1964 or before.

As I was born in 1963, I hope you will understand why I may still feel that the effects of that institutional racism may still be in effect.

I was 15 in 1978 when the Bakke matter was coming to a head and I agree that Bakke was not treated fairly...
I also believe that the greatest effect of affirmative action is to provide you with the opportunity to walk a mile in the shoes of man who may be deserving but denied an opportunity. I hope that the lasting effects of affirmative action will be to create an empathy with those who do not get a fair shake and think twice about abusing the power that you have as the majority.

A part of me wants to say that "you can dish it out but you can't take it" but I have seen minorities all over the world get mistreated so I don't think we are alone. I would certainly rather be black and in America than Kurdish and in Iraq. I try to take the position that we should be thankful for what we do have instead of complaining about what we don't but that's just me. I ask you, however...How does it feel with the tables turned...


Also, as I believe in a meritocracy, my principle concern is not what happens when one person is more qualified than another...I believe the better qualified person should win out...My concern is what happens when two persons are equally qualified but of different races...That is where I think most problems occur...



Ongoing institutional racism...I see affirmative action as damaging also because it creates dependence.... Me, I am the type of person who makes the most of any opportunity...


However, for institutional racism...racial profiling, there are some inequities in the criminal justice system...redlining as far as insurance and home loans...

There still is work to be done but I would be totally lying if I said that I am not in a better and more just society than my father or grandfather was...

However, being that we had Jim Crow laws and segregation for such a long time, I do see a need for some type of affirmative action. I would prefer, however, that it be phased out as soon as possible so that all persons have equal access and opportunity in education... I do think equal access to education is the silver bullet to so many of our social problems...




Additionally, "racism" is not the same thing as "sexism." And you also ignore the fact that division of labor among the sexes isn't necessarily a bad thing -- there were feminists who fought against the right to vote, precisely because they did not want to shoulder the duties that men do.

I am not a woman and can not speak to their issues but it is my humble opinion that women may be more content having the choice of voting or not voting... Exercising of a right is completely different from not having it...


In 2003, now that women are in the armed forces and are raped in war, I wonder if they were right...

Also, on the question of equal responsibility regarding military service, as we have an all-volunteer force, women have the choice...As long as a person understands that a responsibility to oneself and for oneself comes with choices (learned that in NCO Leadership School :-), I have to respect their choice...However, just to be fair, I would not want my daughter to be in a situation where she could be harmed without the training and technology to protect herself very well...The choice would be hers, however...



Thank you for the discussion...
71 posted on 08/13/2003 9:21:53 AM PDT by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: bedolido
bump for later reading
72 posted on 08/13/2003 9:23:59 AM PDT by goodnesswins (Join the Democrat party......be a COMMIE in drag.)
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To: squidly
Lincoln clearly believed slavery was wrong and evil. Anybody who has ever made a serious study of his pre-war writings and speeches knows this.

So how come he didn't just issue the Emancipation Proclamation upon taking office, or upon the outset of the war?

Because feeling in the border states, and in the country generally wouldn't allow it. Northern workers didn't want to compete with free blacks. Also, the hundreds of thousands of patriotic Union men who answered the call to the colors didn't want what they considered a sacred effort to be sullied by the issue of freeing the slaves.

You don't seem very familiar with the history of these events.

Lincoln moved as fast as he dared on emancipation.

"Viewed from the genuine abolition ground, Mr. Lincoln seemed tardy, cold, dull and indifferent; but measuring him by the sentiment of his country, a sentiment he was bound as a statesman to consult, he was swift, zealous, radical and determined."

-- Frederick Douglass

Walt

73 posted on 08/13/2003 9:24:07 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: wasp69
In short, President Licoln attempted to free those whom he had no control over and leave those in chains that he did. But, that is a topic for another thread.

Lincoln had no Constitutional power to free slaves in states that were not in rebellion, or even areas of rebelous states that were under Federal control and where civilian law and Federal Courts were active. You should know that. The EP was a military order and could only be constitutionally applied in areas in rebellion.

Only state governments or an amendment to the Constitution could end slavery in areas loyal to the Union and Lincoln appealed to the governments of MD., KY., MO., and DE to do just that. MD. and MO. did. West Virginia was not admitted as a state (in 1863) until they ended slavery. It was a condition laid dow on thim as a requirement for admission. Lincoln also sponsored and twisted arms to get the 13th Amendment passed by Congress which required 2/3 support of both houses. He signed the bill in early 1865 and sent it to the states for ratification.

As to the EP freeing no slaves, you are wrong. As Union forces gained territory from Jan 1, 1863 (when the EP took effect) until Dec. of 1865 when the states ratified the 13th amendment, over 3 million slaves were freed under the terms of the EP, and nearly 100,000 of those freed slaves joined the Union army. Look up "Juneteenth" in Texas and tell us again that the EP freed no slaves.

74 posted on 08/13/2003 9:24:48 AM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: A_perfect_lady
Just a reference to the "Those who forget the past..." saying

I have to give that one regarding African Facilitation. Many cultures over there which demand such tribal loyalty and dehumanizes others is never going to be able to survive if they do not recognize human dignity and rights as universal.. When you are right, you are right...
75 posted on 08/13/2003 9:25:28 AM PDT by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: rdb3
Lends credence to my theory that American blacks are in what I call "The Marxist Laboratory."


I concur.I havea black supervisor, former Marine, really livig the Dream, and yet , he still talks about oppression and that we Republicans lack compassion. When I quiz him on what the Democrats have done for him ,he gets flustered.
Rdb, precise analysis you did.
Dave
76 posted on 08/13/2003 9:27:00 AM PDT by gatorbait
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To: rdb3
Your point is valid that we should be defined more by what we think than what we look like...Thank you...
77 posted on 08/13/2003 9:28:21 AM PDT by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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To: bedolido
Towards the end of our exchange, the reader admitted that he felt blacks should not have to work more than one job and do overtime to get ahead in life. Their route should be more direct. He felt long hours were for immigrants and that “we’ve already played that game.”

I've heard much the same from too many white people who'd find excuse to not work. "My father did all of this!" and "My grandfather did all of that!". Ridiculous but a common attitude.

78 posted on 08/13/2003 9:30:56 AM PDT by decimon
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To: squidly
Slaves in states that did not secede, Maryland, Kentucky, Delaware, Missouri, were not freed until passage of the 13th Amendment after Lincoln's death.

President Lincoln insisted that the 13th amendment be made a plank in the 1864 Republican Party platform. This despite the fact that it appeared for a time that he was sure to lose.

He worked hard for the 13th amendment, and it passed because he did a lot of arm twisting to get it done.

Don't forget that in that same time frame, he was urged to rescind the EP altogeher. He refused.

David Donald writes:

"As he talked to them, his impatience with the War Democrats became increasingly evident. If they really wanted the war to end without interfering with slavery, 'the field was open to them to have enlisted and put down this rebellion by force of arms long before the present policy was inaugurated'...."

"How could anybody propose 'to return to slavery the black warriors of Port Hudson and Olustee to their masters to conciliate the South? I should be damned in time and in eternity for so doing,' he told his visitors. 'The world shall know that I will keep my faith to friends and enemies, come what will'."

Walt

79 posted on 08/13/2003 9:32:33 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: A_perfect_lady
You are absolutely correct on this point...I can not tell you how much it embarasses when I see the black community demanding more of a hand out as opposed to a hand up...

There is hostility from both sides because there are no easy answers...

In Africa, I see the same thing you do...Though I wish it had not taken slavery to get us here, I have to concede that is a blessing in disguise on some levels because I am here in this free country with all the rights, privileges, and responsibilities and able to have this discussion with you.

By the way, just because there are still problems doesn't mean you and I have the total responsibility or burden of solving them.... We can contribute greatly simply by not making them worse...
80 posted on 08/13/2003 9:34:31 AM PDT by dwd1 (M. h. D. (Master of Hate and Discontent))
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