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White without Apology
TooGoodReports ^ | 08/13/03 | Bernard Chapin

Posted on 08/13/2003 6:57:47 AM PDT by bedolido

While doing my weekly shopping at the Jewel-Osco, I overheard a very unusual conversation. It was between two young baggers who were talking about an article one of them had read regarding President Lincoln. Both men happened to be black. One of them informed the other that President Lincoln cared nothing about blacks and was actually a racist. I was stunned. I wanted to interject a million things to their discussion but I didn’t. Instead, I silently watched the checker ring up my order. The incident immediately brought to mind the old commercial from the seventies where tears run down the eye of an Indian brave as he paddles across a river filled with pollutants. I felt like that Indian as I listened to President Lincoln, the man who freed the slaves, badmouthed by a couple of assistants in a grocery store.

This was the same Lincoln who, during a triumphant walk through Richmond, told a group of bowing slaves to get up because the only king they should bow to was Jesus Christ. I wanted to explain to the clerks that men should be judged by the standards of the days in which they live. Some of Lincoln’s opinions may seem outlandish today, but during the 1860’s he was one of the most enlightened men on the continent. By the standards of the nineteenth century, black Americans had no better friend than Abraham Lincoln.

Race is the biggest taboo issue in America today. Almost everyone acknowledges this but acknowledgement does not make our dialogues any smoother. I discovered this for myself the other day after I wrote a column about rap music. It was a favorable elaboration upon one wrote for City-Journal by John McWhorter. Based on my observations of urban youth, I supported McWhorter’s claim that rap music keeps blacks down through its celebration of pointless rebellion, violence, and nihilism. I received many irate responses. One of them turned into a ten email debate with a reader. By the end of the discussion, we knew a great deal about one another and, vicariously, quite a bit about discussing race in America.

Our little dispute could well have been a microcosm of the nation as a whole. It is unfortunate that I, and numerous other Caucasians, do not always emphatically state our views when asked. Yet, there are major hazards to beware of when addressing race. You never know what the reaction of the person you’re speaking to may be and no one wants to get fired over a conversation.

I could tell that the young man at the other end of the server was not used to dealing with white people like me. He only knows whites who defer to him and agree when he says that he has been wronged. He has been conditioned into thinking that all whites will apologize for their ancestry. I, absolutely, and under no circumstance, will ever apologize for my ancestors. In fact, thank G-d for my ancestors! I wish there were more Americans like them.

He began our exchange by telling me that I shouldn’t be writing about rap music at all as I don’t know anything about it. He also believes that there is nothing wrong with it and that it doesn’t harm anyone. I countered by stating that, while it’s true that I don’t know all the names of the famous rappers, I have unfortunately been subjected to a ton of it and know firsthand adolescents who emulate the words and actions of their favorite stars.

The dialogue went downhill from there (if that’s possible). There was practically no common ground between us, yet I think that is how it should be. White Americans, if they honestly responded to the claims of black separatists and black powerites, would hear little with which to agree.

Most Caucasian Americans are hard-working and middle class. There are very few like Bill Gates or Paul Allen. Most of us make a decent wage and are content with it. We oppress no one. No ancestors of mine were in the United States before 1910, but, even if they were, it would be superfluous as I personally have committed no wrongs to anyone. I told the young man that white guilt is one of the most pernicious influences within our society. Although this white guilt has not hurt our economic success, it has made many whites regard themselves as being morally inferior to the rest of the population.

He made the point that “institutional racism” is the reason many blacks “have not made it.” I told him there was no such thing. It is a creation of the university Marxists who have substituted “African-Americans, Hispanics, women and gays” for the word “proletariat.” The entire concept of “oppressed” and “oppression” is merely idiotic Marxist claptrap. It’s a product of juvenile leftists and should be disregarded. Besides, if there were such a thing as institutional racism no blacks would have ever made it. They’re be no Cedric the Entertainer’s, Deion Sanders’, Tiger Woods’ or Halle Berry’s. If there were any truth in the flawed rubric of institutional racism, all the aforementioned successful blacks would have been poor sharecroppers rather than cultural icons.

We, of course, also clashed on affirmative action. He regarded it as a prerequisite for black success. He said, “The Supreme Court finally got it right.” I, on the other hand, think, “The Supreme Court wrote more legislation.” Clearly, affirmative action is one of the reasons blacks have not been more successful since 1970. You can’t put an average student in Cal Tech and expect them to flourish. They fail and the race hustlers could care less how the experience impedes their future development. Even more grievous, is that affirmative action gives racism the imprimatur of the state. A federal stamp of approval compounds its evil.

Towards the end of our exchange, the reader admitted that he felt blacks should not have to work more than one job and do overtime to get ahead in life. Their route should be more direct. He felt long hours were for immigrants and that “we’ve already played that game.” He argued that blacks have put their blood and sweat into this country’s infrastructure and deserve reparation for their effort.

Honestly, I have no respect for this argument whatsoever. The request for reparations could not be less valid. Blacks in America already have the world’s greatest reparation: United States citizenship. Every single one of the reader’s racial cousins in Africa, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, would kill to be in his shoes. They would stow away in a mouse trap just to get here and have an opportunity to be Americans. Most of them fantasize about an existence without murderous kleptomaniac dictators and having children who are free from disease. America is opportunity and blacks are no different from whites in that we all should be forever thankful that we somehow got to these shores.

I discovered that I profited greatly from this reader. Christopher Hitchens, in his fascinating book, Letters to a Young Contrarian, informs us that the great thing about argumentation is that both sides refine and modify their positions which doing it. I hold this to be true and my exchange with the young man is evidence of it.

In this particular argument, I realized something that I never had before. Clearly, it is conservatives like me who care about poor blacks (most, in fact, are middle class) as opposed to the pseudo-liberals. We offer them the best route for advancement. We want to challenge them and make them stronger. We resist the desire to infantilize them. By treating them like adults and inculcating responsibility through achievement, they will prosper just as every other group of Americans have before them.

My opponent, perhaps unconsciously, wants them to stay poor so he can continue to berate America and critique our way of life. Were their lot to suddenly improve, he’d have no positions and no identity.

Before this conversation, I never realized just how much that I am rooting for poor black folks. I want them to be as productive as everyone else and to “make it” in America. I want no less for them than I do for myself. It would please me to no end if all our citizens were grateful for what they have. No white people get anything out of a major percentage of the population being resentful and angry.

Racial harmony can only be achieved if we treat one another as individuals and not as members of fictitious classes. If you want to be oppressed you’ll find a way to be oppressed, and such a condition damages society as a whole. Racism is wrong in any of its manifestations. We will never all get along if we continue to pretend that some of us, due to the melanin content in our skin, are better than others. Period.

To comment on this article or express your opinion directly to the author, you are invited to e-mail Bernard at bchapafl@hotmail.com .


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: apology; oppression; race; victimhood; white; without
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To: GOPcapitalist
Lincoln did nothing to support colonization after 1/1/63.

And that's also a lie.

One letter does not an interpretation make. Lincoln made no public pronouncements supporting colonization after 12/01/62. That's the bottom line.

He -did- privately and publicly support voting rights for black soldiers.

At least you are not pushing the deportation card any more. I suppose that is progress of a sort.

Walt

241 posted on 08/15/2003 4:56:19 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
"They are the recent major works on the man."

Revisonist History?

242 posted on 08/15/2003 5:00:21 AM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: LexBaird
Your description of a straw man argument is well taken, and is indeed one example of such a position. A poor analogy is, of course, another example; and, in fact, the example you cited is also analogical, since one party changed the subject of the discussion, but kept the basic premise.
243 posted on 08/15/2003 5:37:17 AM PDT by ought-six
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To: WhiskeyPapa
One letter does not an interpretation make.

Yet it does demonstrate a fact.

Lincoln made no public pronouncements supporting colonization after 12/01/62.

Irrelevant. He made private statements supporting it and took actions in his official capacity to support it.

He -did- privately and publicly support voting rights for black soldiers.

And that's a different issue entirely. Besides, who wouldn't want to make voters out of people that were virtually guaranteed to vote for you? Your Democrat buddies try to do the exact same thing today with the mexicans who sneak across our border.

At least you are not pushing the deportation card any more.

Colonization, deportation - Lincoln used both terms to describe it.

244 posted on 08/15/2003 9:41:19 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: WhiskeyPapa; nolu chan
It's not a lie.

It is indeed a lie. The memo from Hay on April 10th proves IRREFUTABLY that Lincoln and Butler had a meeting scheduled on April 11th. Butler's biography does not give the exact date of the meeting, but it does say that it was the last time the two ever met in person and that Lincoln was assassinated only a few days after. The April 11th meeting discussed in Hay's memo is therefore the only candidate of when it could have happened, and is also direct documentation that a meeting between the two is known to have occurred in the timeframe given by Butler.

The Butler story does not seem to appear in any of the major bio's of President Lincoln.

Yet the Hay memo does appear in the index of routine correspondences from the Collected Works of Lincoln - the single most comprehensive work ever compiled on the man.

No reputable historian gives it any credence.

False. The only historian that I've ever read of doubting it is Mark Neely. By contrast, if you run a quick search in an academic journal database you will find four or five articles on Lincoln and race relations in which it is accepted as a matter of fact. I believe nolu chan also posted some historian quotes about it a while back, all of them suggesting it was credible.

There is no mention of it in the Oates bio or the Donald bio.

So what's your point? Both those bios are incomplete and in parts flawed. Meanwhile the indexed correspondences in the Collected Works of Lincoln directly corroborate Butler's account of meeting Lincoln at that exact same time by way of the Hay memo. Live with it.

245 posted on 08/15/2003 9:52:33 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist; WhiskeyPapa
[Wlat 241] He -did- privately and publicly support voting rights for black soldiers.

[GOPcap 244] And that's a different issue entirely. Besides, who wouldn't want to make voters out of people that were virtually guaranteed to vote for you?

There was a cabinet meeting on April 14, 1865 from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m., only hours before Lincoln was shot. Lincoln said Blacks had no legal right to vote, that it was up to the States, and that he would not interfere.

"Louisiana, he said, had framed and presented one of the best constitutions that had ever been formed. He wished they had permitted negroes who had property, or could read, to vote; but this was a question which they [the states] must decide for themselves. Yet some, a very few of our friends, were not willing to let the people of the States determine these questions, but, in violation of first and fundamental principles, would exercise arbitrary power over them. These humanitarians break down all State rights and constitutional rights."
~Gideon Welles~

LINCOLN'S LAST CABINET MEETING

Excerpted from:
Lincoln and Johnson
Their Plan of Reconstruction and the Resumption of National Authority
First Paper
by Gideon Welles
Galaxy Magazine, April 1872, pp. 525-527

Page 525

When I went to the Cabinet meeting on Friday, the 14th of April, General Grant, who had just arrived from Appomattox, was with the President, and one or two members were already there. Congratulations were interchanged, and earnest inquiry was made whether any information had been received from General Sherman. The Secretary of War came late to the meeting, and the telegraph office from which we obtained earliest news was in the War Department. General Grant, who was invited to remain, said he was expecting hourly to hear from Sherman, and had a good deal of anxiety on the subject.

The President remarked that the news would come soon and come favorably, he had no doubt, for he had last night his usual dream which had preceeded nearly every important event of the war. I inquired the particulars of this remarkable dream. He said it was in my department -- it related to the water; that he seemed to be in a singular and indescribable vessel, but always the same, and that he was moving with great rapidity toward a dark and indefinite shore; that he had had this singular dream preceding the firing on Sumter, the battles of Bull Run, Antietam, Gettysburg, Stone river, Vicksburg, Wilmington, etc. General Grant remarked with some emphasis and asperity that Stone River was no victory -- that a few such victories would have ruined the country, and he knew of no important results from it. The President said that perhaps he should not altogether agree with him but whatever might be the facts, his singular dream preceded that fight. Victory did not always follow his dream, but the event and results were important. He had no doubt that a battle had taken place or was about being fought, "and Johnston will be beaten, for I had this strange dream again last night. It must relate to Sherman; my thoughts are in that direction, and I know of no other very important event which is likely just now to occur."

Great events did indeed follow. Within a few hours the good and gentle as well as truly great man who narrated his dream was assassinated, and the murder which closed forever his earthly career affected for years, and perhaps forever, the welfare of his country.

The session of the Cabinet on that eventful day, the last of President Lincoln's life, was chiefly occupied on the subject of our relations with the rebels -- the communications, the trade, etc. The Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. McCulloch, who had but recently entered upon his duties, was embarrassed in regard to captured cotton, permits, and traffic. It was generally agreed that commercial intercourse with the rebel States should be speedily established. Mr. Stanton proposed that communication should be reopened by his issuing a military order, authorizing and limiting traffic; that the Secretary of the Treasury would give permits to all who wished to trade, and he (Stanton) would order the vessels to be received into any port.

I suggested that instead of a military order from the Secretary of War, the President should issue an Executive order or proclamation for opening the ports to trade, and prescribe therein the duties of the several Departments. Mr. McCulloch expressed his willingness to be relieved from Treasury agents, and General Grant declared himself unequivocally opposed to them and the whole Treasury system of trading within the rebel lines as demoralizing.

In regard to opening the ports to trade, Mr. Stanton thought it should be attended with restrictions, and that traffic should not extend beyond the military lines. I proposed opening the whole coast to every one who wished to trade, was entitled to coast license, and should obtain a regular clearance. I wished the reestablishment of unrestricted commercial and social intercourse with the southern people with as little delay as possible, from a conviction that it would conduce to a more speedy establishment of friendly relations. General Grant concurred with me, and recommended that there should be no restrictions east of the Mississippi. The President referred the whole subject to the Secretaries of the Treasury, War, and Navy, and said he should be satisfied with any conclusions to which they might arrive, or on which they could agree.

At the close of the session Mr. Stanton made some remarks on the general condition of affairs and the new phase and duties upon which we were about to enter.

Page 526

He alluded to the great solicitude which the President felt on this subject, his frequent recurrence to the necessity of establishing civil governments and preserving order in the rebel States. Like the rest of the Cabinet, doubtless, he had given this subject much consideration, and with a view of having something practical on which to base action, he had drawn up a rough plan or ordinance which he had handed to the President.

The President said he proposed to bring forward that subject, althought he had not had time as yet to give much attention to the details of the paper which the Secretary of War had given him only the day before; but that it was substantially, in its general scope, the plan which we had sometimes talked over in Cabinet meetings. We should probably make some modifications, prescribe further details; there were some suggestions which he should wish to make, and he desired all to bring their minds to the question, for no greater or more important one could come before us, or any future Cabinet. He thought it providential that this great rebellion was crushed just as Congress had adjourned, and there were none of the disturbing elements of that body to hinder and embarrass us. If we were wise and discreet, we should reanimate the States and get their governments in successful operation, with order prevailing the the Union reestablished, before Congress came together in December. This he thought important. We could do better; accomplish more without than with them. There were men in Congress who, if their motives were good, were nevertheless impracticable, and who possessed feelings of hate and vindictiveness in which he did not sympathize and could not participate. He hoped there would be no persecution, no bloody work, after the war was over. None need expect he would take any part in hanging or killing those men, even the worst of them. Frighten them out of the country, open the gates, let down the bars, scare them off, said he, throwing up his hands as if scaring sheep. Enough lives have been sacrificed. We must extinguish our resentments if we expect harmony and union. There was too much of a desire on the part of some of our very good friends to be masters, to interfere with and dictate to those States, to treat the people not as fellow citizens; there was too little respect for their rights. He did not sympathize in these feelings. Louisiana, he said, had framed and presented one of the best constitutions that had ever been formed. He wished they had permitted negroes who had property, or could read, to vote; but this was a question which they must decide for themselves. Yet some, a very few of our friends, were not willing to let the people of the States determine these questions, but, in violation of first and fundamental principles, would exercise arbitrary power over them. These humanitarians break down all State rights and constitutional rights. Had the Louisianians inserted the negro in their Constitution, and had that instrument been in all other respects the same, Mr. Sumner, he said, would never have excepted to that Constitution. The delegation would have been admitted, and the State all right. Each House of Congress, he said, had the undoubted right to receive or reject members; the executive had no control over the matter. But Congress had nothing to do with the State governments, which the President could recognize, and under existing laws treat as other States, give them the same mail facilities, collect taxes, appoint judges, marshals, collectors, etc., subject, of course, to confirmation. There were men who objected to these views, but they were not here, and we must make haste to do our duty before they came here.

Mr. Stanton read his project for reorganizing, reestablishing, or reconstructing governments. It was a military or executive order, and by it the War Department was designated to reorganize those States whose individuality it assumed was sacrificed. Divested of its military features, it was in form and outline essentially the same as the plan ultimately adopted. This document proposed establishing a military department to be composed of virginia and North Carolina, with a military governor. After reading this paper, Mr. Stanton made some addtional remarks in furtherance of the views of the President and the importance of prompt measures.

A few moments elapsed, and no one else speaking, I expressed my concurrence in the necessity of immediate action, and my gratification that the Secretary of War had given the outlines of a plan embodying his views. I objected, however, to military supervision or control, and to the proposition of combining two States in

Page 527

the plan of a temporary government. My idea, more perhaps than that of any other of the Cabinet, was for a careful observance, not only of the distinctive rights, but of the individuality of the States. Besides, Viginia occupied a different position from that of any other of those States. There had been throughout the war a skeleton organization in that commonwealth which we had recognized. We had said through the whole war that Virginia was a State in the Union -- that her relations with the Government were not suspended. We had acknowledged and claimed that Pierpont was the legitimate and rightful Governor, that the organization was lawful and right under him; that the division of the State, which required the assent of the legal State government, had been effected, and was claimed to be constitutional and correct. Were we now to ignore our own acts -- to say the Pierpont Government was a farce -- that the act creating the State of west Virginia was a nullity? My position on that quesiton was different from others, for though not unfriendly to the new State, I had opposed the division of the State when it took place. The proposition to reestablish a State government in Virginia where there was already a State government with which we were acting, with Pierpont as governor, or to put it under military control, appeared to me a grave error. The President said my exceptions, some of them at least, were well taken. Some of them had occurred to him. It was in that view he had been willing that General Weitzel should call the leading rebels together, because they were not the legal Legislature of Virginia, while the Pierpont Legislature was. Turning to Mr. Stanton, he asked what he would do with Pierpont and the Virginia Constitution? Stanton replied that he had no apprehension from Pierpont, but the paper which he had submitted was merely a rough sketch subject to any alteration.

Governor Dennison thought that Pierpont would be no serious obstacle in the way, were that the only difficulty; but there were other objections, and he thought separate propositions for the government of the two States advisable.

I suggested that the Federal Government could assist the loyal government of Virginia in asserting, extending, and maintaining its authority over the whole State, but that we could not supersede or annul it.

The President directed Mr. Stanton to take the documents and have separate plans presented for the two States. They required different treatment. "We must not," said he, "stultify ourselves as regards Virginia, but we must help her." North Carolina was in a different condition. He requested the Secretary of War to have copies of the two plans for the two States made and furnished each member of the Cabinet by the following Tuesday -- the next regular meeting. He impressed upon each and all the importance of deliberating upon and carefully considering the subject before us, remarking that this was the great question pending, and that we must now begin to act in the interest of peace. He again declared his thankfulness that Congress was not in session to embarrass us.

The President was assassinated that evening, and I am not aware that he exchanged a word with any one after the Cabinet meeting of that day on the subject of a resumption of the national authority in the States where it had been suspended, or of reestablishing the Union.



246 posted on 08/16/2003 12:47:29 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: GOPcapitalist; WhiskeyPapa
Abraham Lincoln

Annual Message to Congress

December 1, 1862

Heretofore colored people, to some extent, have fled north from bondage; and now, perhaps, from both bondage and destitution. But if gradual emancipation and deportation be adopted, they will have neither to flee from. Their old masters will give them wages at least until new laborers can be procured; and the freed men, in turn, will gladly give their labor for the wages, till new homes can be found for them, in congenial climes, and with people of their own blood and race. This proposition can be trusted on the mutual interests involved. And, in any event, cannot the north decide for itself, whether to receive them?

The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Vol 5, page 535-6.

December 1, 1862

I cannot make it better known than it already is, that I strongly favor colonization.

In April 1865, Lincoln to General Butler, fully corroborated and matching other statements known to have been made by Lincoln, as quoted and authenticated by multiple reputable historians.

But what shall we do with the negroes after they are free? I can hardly believe that the South and North can live in peace, unless we can get rid of the negroes. Certainly they cannot if we don’t get rid of the negroes whom we have armed and disciplined and who have fought with us. . . . I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves.

Benjamin F. Butler, Autobiography and Personal Reminiscences of Major-General Benjamin F. Butler: A Review of His Legal, Political, and Military Career (or, Butler’s Book) (Boston: A. M. Thayer & Co. Book Publishers, 1892), p. 903.

Scores of historians have spent countless hours trying to discredit Butler and his story. But since it is impossible to prove a negative, and since, as other historians have pointed out, Butler's account is "full and circumstantial" and there was no reason for him to lie, these efforts have proved fruitless. More to the point, Lincoln said the same thing about colonization and his fear of Black violence to others (see page 615). Based on these and other factors, some scholars, Ludwell H. Johnson (68) and Herman Belz (282) among them, have concluded that there is no reason to doubt the butler account. "If Butler's recollection is substantially correct, as it appears to be," George Frederickson said, "then one can only conclude that Lincoln continued to his dying day to deny the possibility of racial harmony and equality in the United States and persisted in regarding colonization as the only real alternative to perpetual race conflict" (57)

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 167

Citations:

Belz, Herman, Reconstructing the Union. Ithaca, 1969.

Frederickson, George M. "A Man but Not a Brother: Abraham Lincoln and Racial Equality," Journal of Southern History 41 (February 1975): 39-58.

Johnson, Ludwell. "Lincoln and Equal Rights: The Authenticity of the Wadsworth Letter," Journal of Southern History 32 (Sept. 1966): 83-7


Congressman Julian, who conferred with Lincoln often as a member of the powerful Joint Committee on the Conduct of the War, used almost the same words, saying that when Lincoln "very reluctantly issued his preliminary proclamation ... he wished it distinctly understood that the deportation of the slaves was, in his mind, inseparably connected with the policy" (RR 61)

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 510

Citation:

Allen T. Rice, Reminiscences of Abraham Lincoln by Distinguished Men of His Time. New York, 1888.


Looking back later, Rev. Mitchell said, according to an interview published in the St. Louis Daily Globe-Democrat, August 26, 1894, that he asked a Presbyterian pastor to recommend a local man who could help him organize Illinois for the American Colonization Society. The pastor recommended Lincoln, who didn't, Mitchell said, look like much but who had a firm grasp of the politics of colonization and what Mitchell had done in Indiana. Lincoln was thirty-four years old when he met Mitchell. What did he believe? He "earnestly believed in and advocated colonization as a means of solving 'the race problem,'" Mitchell said. The two men became friends or at least associates, and Lincoln later names Mitchell commissioner of [Black] emigration in the Lincoln administration.

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 226


This was not an ad hoc political tactic or a hastily devised response to the pressure of events -- this was, Lincoln's emigration aide Rev. James Mitchell told the St. Louis Daily Globe-Democrat on August 16, 1894, the foundation of Lincoln's private and public policy. It was "his honest conviction that it was better for both races to separate. This was the central point of his policy, around which hung all his private views, and as far as others would let him, his public acts" [Italics added] Lincoln was "fully convinced" that "the republic was already dangerously encumbered with African blood that would not legally mix with American [sic] . . . . He regarded a mixed race as eminently anti-republican, because of the heterogeneous character it gives the population where it exists, and for similar reasons he did not favor the annexation of tropical lands encumbers with mixed races ...."

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 384


Lincoln's emigration aide, the Rev. James Mitchell, said the Proclamation "did not change Mr. Lincoln's policy of colonization, nor was it so intended." On August 18, 1863, seven months after the signing of the Proclamation and three months before the Gettysburg Address, Mitchell said he asked Lincoln if he "might say that colonization was still the policy of the Administration." Lincoln replied twice, he said, that "I have never thought so much on any subject and arrived at a conclusion so definite as I have in this case, and in after years found myself wrong." Lincoln added that "it would have been much better to separate the races than to have such scenes as those in New York [during the Draft Riots] the other day, where Negroes were hanged to lamp posts."

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 554



247 posted on 08/16/2003 1:09:40 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
In April 1865, Lincoln to General Butler, fully corroborated and matching other statements known to have been made by Lincoln, as quoted and authenticated by multiple reputable historians.

But what shall we do with the negroes after they are free? I can hardly believe that the South and North can live in peace, unless we can get rid of the negroes. Certainly they cannot if we don’t get rid of the negroes whom we have armed and disciplined and who have fought with us. . . . I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves.

No -reputable- historian gives any credence to the Butler story.

That may be partly because there seems to be no record of it from 1865 and 1892. No reputable historian -can- give credence to the story because there were only two people present and one of them died 4 days later.

It's not even clear that Butler even met with President Lincoln.

After 12/01/62, President Lincoln does not mention colonization again. You won't find a word about it -from- Lincoln.

Walt

248 posted on 08/16/2003 1:18:51 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
THE ABRAHAM LINCOLN ASSOCIATION:

Lerone Bennett, Jr. is a highly acclaimed journalist, author and executive editor of Ebony. He graduated from Morehouse College in 1949 and began his career as a reporter for the Atlanta Daily World and later served as city editor. Bennett moved to Chicago in 1953 where he worked as associate editor at Jet magazine. The following year he became associate editor for Ebony and is now executive editor of the publication. He has authored many articles and books including, Before the Mayflower: A History of Black America, 1619-1962 (1962), What Manner of Man: A Biography of Martin Luther King, Jr. (1964), and Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln’s White Dream (2000).

CAN YOU DIG IT, BROTHER? I hope you didn't miss it.

Abraham Lincoln Symposium
and Annual Abraham Lincoln Association Banquet
Sponsored by:

With support from:

Abraham Lincoln Symposium
February 12, 2002, at the Old State Capitol in Springfield, Illinois,
The Symposium is free to the public.

Address: Lerone Bennett Jr., Ebony Magazine, Forced Into Glory

249 posted on 08/16/2003 1:37:56 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
Lerone Bennet is not a reputable historian. He just isn't.

Walt

250 posted on 08/16/2003 1:42:30 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: nolu chan
While it is true that there seem to be no statements -from- President Lincoln after 12/01/62 whatsoever supporting colonization, we see many where he expresses a desire for rqual and fair treatment of blacks, as from this letter of 2/14/64 to the governor of Massachusetts:

"If, however, it be really true that Massachusetts wishes to afford a permanent home within her borders, for all, or even a large number of colored persons who will come to her, I shall be only too glad to know it. It would give relief in a very difficult point; and I would not for a moment hinder from going, any person who is free by the terms of the proclamation or any of the acts of Congress."

Walt

251 posted on 08/16/2003 1:45:40 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
LINK

The American Book Awards / Before Columbus Foundation

The American Book Awards, established in 1978 by the Before Columbus Foundation, recognize outstanding literary achievement by contemporary American authors, without restriction to race, sex, ethnic background, or genre. The purpose of the awards is to acknowledge the excellence and multicultural diversity of American writing.

2002 Lifetime Achievement: Lerone Bennett, Jr.

LINK

Salute to Greatness Award
of the Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change

Lerone Bennett, Jr.

252 posted on 08/16/2003 1:45:56 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
Scores of historians have spent countless hours trying to discredit Butler and his story. But since it is impossible to prove a negative, and since, as other historians have pointed out, Butler's account is "full and circumstantial" and there was no reason for him to lie...

This shows that Bennett is not a reputable historian, because Butler had -every- reason to lie. He was seeking office. The story made him look good; it made him look like an intimate of President Lincoln's which he certainly was not.

Walt

253 posted on 08/16/2003 2:26:56 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
[Wlat] While it is true that there seem to be no statements -from- President Lincoln after 12/01/62 whatsoever supporting colonization, we see many where he expresses a desire for rqual and fair treatment of blacks....

It is just as true that Bill Clinton said he did not have sex with that woman. Of course, in private he said something more like, "Yeah, baby; Yeah, baby; Oh Yeah, baby."

Lincoln's emigration aide, the Rev. James Mitchell, said the Proclamation "did not change Mr. Lincoln's policy of colonization, nor was it so intended." On August 18, 1863, seven months after the signing of the Proclamation and three months before the Gettysburg Address, Mitchell said he asked Lincoln if he "might say that colonization was still the policy of the Administration." Lincoln replied twice, he said, that "I have never thought so much on any subject and arrived at a conclusion so definite as I have in this case, and in after years found myself wrong." Lincoln added that "it would have been much better to separate the races than to have such scenes as those in New York [during the Draft Riots] the other day, where Negroes were hanged to lamp posts."

Forced Into Glory, Lerone Bennett, Jr., p. 554


254 posted on 08/16/2003 2:33:22 AM PDT by nolu chan
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To: GOPcapitalist
It's not a lie.

It is indeed a lie. The memo from Hay on April 10th proves IRREFUTABLY that Lincoln and Butler had a meeting scheduled on April 11th.

There is no proof that Butler and Lincoln even met, and no way to corroborate Butler's story which, amazingly, he didn't bother to publish until 1892.

You don't have an interpretation, you have an anecdote.

Walt

255 posted on 08/16/2003 2:42:19 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: bedolido; JohnHuang2; MadIvan; TonyInOhio; MeeknMing; itreei; jd792; Molly Pitcher; muggs; ...
pings
256 posted on 08/16/2003 2:53:09 AM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK ("History is written by those who would hang heroes" ....Touch not the cat but a glove)
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To: nolu chan

Col. Robert Gould Shaw leads the 54th Massachusetts Infantry in the attack on Battery Wagner, 7/14/63

"We told him we should very much like to see Mr. Lincoln so he gave us a note to him & off we trotted to make a call. After waiting a few moments in the antechamber we were shown into a room where Mr. Lincoln was sitting at a desk perfectly covered with letters & papers of every description. He got up & shook hands with both of us in the most cordial way, asked us to be seated & seemed quite glad to have us come. It is really too bad to call him one of the ugliest men in the country for I have seldom seen a pleasanter or more kindly-hearted looking one and he certainly has a very striking face. It is easy to see why he is so popular with all those who come in contact with him. His voice is very pleasant though to be sure we were there a very few moments, I didn't hear anything like Western twang or slang in him. He gives you the impression of being a gentleman."

--Robert Gould Shaw, 5/2/61

Walt

257 posted on 08/16/2003 2:57:39 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: nolu chan
[Wlat] While it is true that there seem to be no statements -from- President Lincoln after 12/01/62 whatsoever supporting colonization, we see many where he expresses a desire for rqual and fair treatment of blacks....

It is just as true that Bill Clinton said he did not have sex with that woman.

As I'm sure you know, the latter has absolutely no application to the former.

President Lincoln made many statements supporting equal treatment for blacks, that black soldiers were as good as any, that they should have the vote, and that finding permanent homes for them within the country would relieve a great difficuty..

After 12/01/62, he makes no statements whatsoever about colonization.

Walt

258 posted on 08/16/2003 3:08:29 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: GOPcapitalist
Got this off the moderated ACW newsgroup:

"Lincoln gave it up and in February, 1864, ordered a ship to return the surviving colonists [from Ile A' Vache, Haiti] to the United States. Congress gave the coup de grace to colonization in July, 1864, by repealing all provisions of the legislation of 1862 appropriating funds for colonization purposes." [James M. McPherson, "Abolitionist and Negro Opposition to Colonization During the Civil War," _Phylon,_ Vol XXXVI, No. 4, Winter, 1965, p. 398] Lincoln signed this measure.

David H. Donald wrote of Lincoln, "the failure of his colonization schemes had taught him that African-Americans were, and would remain, a permanent part of the American social fabric. He believed that the more intelligent blacks, especially those who served in the army, were entitled to the suffrage. Hence he encouraged the education of the freedmen, and he supported the Freedmen's Bureau to protect them from exploitation by their former masters." [David H. Donald, _Lincoln,_ p. 583]

As Gabor Boritt wrote, "Colonization was dead and Lincoln did not mourn. He did not march backwards." [Gabor Boritt, "Did He Dream of a Lily-White America? The Voyage to Linconia," in Gabor Boritt, ed., _The Lincoln Enigma,_ p. 17]

In 1864, John Hay recorded in his diary that Lincoln had "sloughed off" all these notions of colonization. [John Hay, _The Complete Civil War Diary of John Hay,_ p. 217, quoted in Ibid., p. 8]

Colonization, incidentally, didn't end with Lincoln. "The American Colonization Society continued its work and in the thirty years following the war sent out more than four thousand emigrants." [Brainerd Dyer, "The Persistencer of the Idea of Negro Colonization," _Pacific Historical Review,_ Vol XII, No. 1, March, 1943, p. 61]

Wade Hampton proposed colonization in 1890 in an article titled "The Race Problem" published in _The Arena,_ Vol 2, July, 1890. William Patrick Calhoun, a Greenville, South Carolina writer, wrote a book in 1902 called _The Caucasian and Negro in the United States. They Must be Separate. If Not, Then Extermination. A Proposed Solution: Colonization._

In 1939, Mississippi Senator Theodore G. Bilbo introduced legislation in Congress that called for the federal government to support a large-scale voluntary migration of blacks to Liberia. [Congressional Record, 76th Congress, 1st Session, 4647, 4650-4676]"

Lincoln abandoned colonization schemes after 1862.

Walt

259 posted on 08/16/2003 3:18:33 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
WALT SHOPPING GARBAGE AGAIN

While it is true that there seem to be no statements -from- President Lincoln after 12/01/62 whatsoever supporting colonization, we see many where he expresses a desire for rqual and fair treatment of blacks, as from this letter of 2/14/64 to the governor of Massachusetts:

"If, however, it be really true that Massachusetts wishes to afford a permanent home within her borders, for all, or even a large number of colored persons who will come to her, I shall be only too glad to know it. It would give relief in a very difficult point; and I would not for a moment hinder from going, any person who is free by the terms of the proclamation or any of the acts of Congress."

Walt, you have already tried this cut and paste on me. It did not work before and it will not work now. Let's look at the WHOLE letter.

[Wlat 1786 been here] LINK

[nolu chan 1791 done this before] LINK

John A Andrew

Executive Mansion,

Washington, February 18. 1864.

Yours of the 12th was received yesterday. If I were to judge from the letter, without any external knowledge, I should suppose that all the colored people South of Washington were struggling to get to Massachusetts; that Massachusetts was anxious to receive and retain the whole of them as permament citizens; and that the United States Government here was interposing and preventing this. But I suppose these are neither really the facts, nor meant to be asserted as true by you. Coming down to what I suppose to be the real facts, you are engaged in trying to raise colored troops for the U. S. and wish to take recruits from Virginia, through Washington, to Massachusetts for that object; and the loyal Governor of Virginia, also trying to raise troops for us, objects to you taking his material away; while we, having to care for all, and being responsible alike to all, have to do as much for him, as we would have to do for you, if he was, by our authority, taking men from Massachusetts to fill up Virginia regiments. No more than this has been intended by me; nor, as I think, by the Secretary of War. There may have been some abuses of this, as a rule, which, if known, should be prevented in future. If, however, it be really true that Massachusetts wishes to afford a permanent home within her borders, for all, or even a large number of colored persons who will come to her, I shall be only too glad to know it. It would give relief in a very difficult point; and I would not for a moment hinder from going, any person who is free by the terms of the proclamation or any of the acts of Congress."

A. Lincoln

[Wlat] President Lincoln indicated that Massachusetts was a proper locality.

LINCOLN: The place I am thinking about having for a colony is in Central America.

Wlat, Massachusetts is not in Central America.

Lincoln Address on Colonization to a Deputation of Negroes
LINK

Lincoln, Abraham, 1809-1865.: Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln. Volume 5. Address on Colonization to a Deputation of Negroes [1]

August 14, 1862

260 posted on 08/16/2003 3:28:26 AM PDT by nolu chan
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