Episcopal Church Problems

vanity | Sunday, August 10, 2003 | altura

[altura]

We had discussed posting what happened in our Episcopal churches this Sunday morning.

I’m in the diocese let by Bishop Stanton, one of the 11 Bishops who walked out of the General Assembly in protest. He wrote a letter to all the parishioners to be read to each congregation by the Priest.

Our Priest did not want to read the letter and said so. However, she did because she had taken a vow to obey the Bishop. In itself the letter didn’t say much other than expressing his deep concern for the direction of the Church and announcing the meeting on October 12th to which all of the Priests and other leaders of the diocese will be expected to attend.

He also mentioned the meeting called in England by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Prior to her reading this letter, she preached on the lesson from Ephesians, which was read today, quoting the following:

“Put away from you all bitterness and wrath and anger and wrangling and slander, together with all malice, and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ has forgiven you.”

She also suggested we e-mail Bishop Stanton with our opinions.

Does anyone else have an experience to share?

[brbethke]

And I think we can even leave aside (for the moment) the homosexual issue.

I second that. That's a distraction; the real issue here is that we have a man who has a.) left his wife and children for another, b.) is currently living in an unmarried and sexually active relationship, and c.) shows no remorse or contrition, but rather is proud of his behavior. So leaving the gender of the respective parties out of it, this guy is at the very least an unrepentant adulterer and fornicator.

And the ECUSA wants to uphold him as an example of a good man? What's next? Forming a church youth group called "Lot's Daughters," because incest is only a lifestyle choice?

[Humidston]

You are sooo right. Too bad FR doesn't have a BEST POST OF THE DAY section because I'd nominate yours if it did.

Sadly, you are on the money. Dead on.

[hellinahandcart]

And I think we can even leave aside (for the moment) the homosexual issue.

I second that. That's a distraction;

You know what else was a distraction? The whole gay bishop confirmation. While everyone was reeling from that, and after a lot of conservatives left the conference, they voted to allow parishes to develop blessings for same-sex commitments, Then they tried to pretend they were acting out of concern when they voted down writing an actual liturgy for same-sex unions. Now that is just wrong.

The church is not going to bend over backwards to write blessings for *my* sinful behaviors. Just those of our brand new special protected class.

They must be a separate creation. Current "wisdom" is that God was only speaking to heterosexual men and women throughout the whole of history, not to gays and lesbians. Who said that? Lots of people, including the Archbishop of Canterbury.

So don't say the homsexual issue is beside the point. It's the root of the heresy here.

[steve86]

...and light it on fire.

For a minute there I thought you had some sort of a passive-aggressive complex.

[brbethke]

I agree about the root problem. Robinson was just a lightning rod. While everyone was focused on his confirmation and the accompanying brouhaha, the convention completely capitulated on the subject of homosexuality.

That is the real issue. Throughout both the Old and New Testaments, homosexuality is repeatedly denounced as one of the gravest sins. Well, is it? Or is that just a translation error? And if that is just an old idea we can discard, then what other sins are no longer relevant?

Until the church addresses the differences between Scripture and doctrine on this point -- at least, until they address it with more than an elaborate waving of hands and a vague, "The Holy Spirit moved us to erect a bigger tent" -- until that issue is resolved, they remain in serious danger of becoming The Church of Whatever Makes You Feel Good.

Which may draw a large congregation in the U.S., but it is not Christianity.

[AppyPappy]

I think they capiulated on the idea of "separation". Unlike Jesus facing the Devil in the wilderness for the third time, they choose the world.

[AppyPappy]

capitulated

[mosby]

I posed this question on another thread but never got an answer. As I understand Robinson was living in a gay relationship while he was a priest, and in fact left his wife and daughters while he was a priest. I assume that was acceptable or at least permitted behavior in the Episcopalian Church, in that I have not read anywhere that he was disiplined by the church for this behavior or ever rerepented for this behavior. Why then the uproar over his new status as a Bishop? Are the standards for a Bishop different than those for a priest? You can be an unrepentant sodomite priest, but not an unrepentant sodomite Bishop? Sin is or is not sin depending on your status? Perhaps one of you Episcopalians can explain this apparent inconsistency to me.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

It looks like so called christians do not have the physical and moral capacity to effectively resist bad men. Nietzsche's 19th century analysis of the western soul seems to be correct. I would leave-(St. Paul's-come out from among them)- set up little cells of believers study and pray. You have to ask yourselves churchgoers; Can any decent person with self respect, with a proper fear for the state of his soul, attend an organized church?

[Kevin Curry]

You have to ask yourselves churchgoers; Can any decent person with self respect, with a proper fear for the state of his soul, attend an organized church?

Do sheep belong in a flock, or wandering in onesies and twosies in the wilderness?

But of course the adversary strikes the flock hard. He insinuates wolves into the flock after first striking down or rendering feckless the shepherd who should be guarding the flock. At his leisure the adversary can then slaughter and devour the dull and insensible sheep that remain in the false hope and belief that the shepherd has kept danger from them. Those that do wander off in isolated pockets are also easier to slaughter and devour in due time.

The sheep that survive and remain vigorous are brought to coalesce as a flock around a faithful and true shepherd, i.e., a congregation organized around "the faith once delivered" led by a faithful and God-fearing shepherd willing to lay down his life for the sheep after the manner of his Lord.

The Shepherd Robinson has bargained away the safety of the flock in exchange for satisfaction of his priavte lusts.

[Humidston]

Touche.

[ex-Texan]

Just pick a thick used book that promotes homosexuality. Doesn't matter which one but buy it very cheap. The cheaper the better (the price also send a message). Leave it on his door step and just walk away. Don't light a fire. A fire will be interpreted as a threat of arson or even death threat or a hate crime. But, or course, you would have to wash the cover and the cover of the new book with soap and water inside and out. Finger prints. 'Nuff said.

[altura]

Your liberal rector went to the right place ... Austin has to be the most liberal city in Texas.

[BooBoo1000]

The place I was in had a lot of praying going on, everyone was pleading and begging, there was about % 5,000.00 on the crap table and the shooter needed a nine.... Yep you guessed it six-one. Next shooter.

[r9etb]

Someone said something about sharing our Sunday morning experiences.

A pleasant fellow from the New York Times was visiting our parish this morning, and interviewed my wife. Apparently they're spread all over the country....

Although our rector was front and center for the national media last week, we didn't have any discission on the topic today.

The childrens' choir (2nd-6th Grade) just returned from camp, and their performance ("Adam's Apple") took the place of the sermon. And they also did some Handel, Mozart, and Bach -- sweet childrens' voices and beautiful music about God. Doesn't get much better than that.

There was a flyer in the bulletin, which outlined the fact that people could earmark their pledges so that their money wouldn't go to the national church or diocese unless they specifically said so.

Other than that, I think our parish is pretty much going to ignore the last convention, which we consider to be illegitimate.

[xring]

There seems to be no inconsistency within his diocese. They consistently had no ploblem with him.

Generally, Episcopal Diocese are pretty independant. the rule, rather than the exception is not to interfere with other diocese decisions. This unwritten rule is what is being used as a cop-out by those who voted in favor of the perverted bishop heretic.

[Rummyfan]

In all humility, I only have to say that your church has abandoned you. Time to move on.

[altura]

Thanks for a reasonable point of view about women priests.

I think part of the problem people have with this issue is that so many of the early wave of women who aspired to the priesthood were man-hating feminists with more of a political agenda than a religious one.

But now that that has settled down, I have known several fine ones and cannot find it in my heart to condemn them per se.

The problem with the line many on this thread take, is that they are muddying up the waters by bringing in the women priest issue.

An openly homosexual Bishop who left wife and children; who started a questionable website for youth (but can't recall doing much about it lately) is just so obviously not a person who should be a Bishop. I can't see how anyone can think he is.

I think we should stick to this issue. The women thing has been decided.