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man arrest for detaining illegal immigrants
Yuma Sun ^ | LOUIE VILLALOBOS, Staff Writer

Posted on 08/07/2003 8:27:02 PM PDT by AZ GRAMMY

Second arrest made in immigrant incident

BY LOUIE VILLALOBOS, Staff Writer Aug 7, 2003

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Yuma County sheriff's deputies have arrested a second man in connection with the alleged unlawful detention of six illegal immigrants on July 31 in Gadsden.

Alexander David Dumas, 26, was arrested Tuesday evening after driving to Yuma from his home in Big Bear Lake, Calif., for an interview, said sheriff's spokesman Lt. Eben Bratcher.

Dumas was charged with six counts of aggravated assault and five counts of unlawful imprisonment following the early morning July 31 incident where deputies said he and Matthew Paul Hoffman, arrested on the same charges on Monday, detained a group of six illegal immigrants that had just entered the United States through the Colorado River.

A third man, Martin Hoffman Jr., was with the two suspects but won't be charged because he was not armed and did not take part in the handcuffing of the illegal immigrants, Bratcher said.

Bratcher said the department will continue to investigate the case and warned citizens against taking the law into their own hands.

He said anyone who sees a group of suspected illegal immigrants should call the Border Patrol, and not take it upon themselves to apprehend the group by using guns and handcuffs. Asking a group to stay put while making a phone call is permitted and would constitute a citizen's arrest, he said.

"When you have someone holding someone against their will with the use or the threat of the use of force, you've crossed the line between a citizen's arrest and unlawful detention," he said. "There was no justification for the use of force."

Deputies said the two men handcuffed five members of the group, which included three children and two women, and held them at gunpoint until U.S. Border Patrol agents arrived.

Agents have said they were dispatched to the scene when a surveillance camera operator noticed the incident unfolding. The agents called the sheriff's department, who then identified and interviewed all three men before letting them go, officials said.

Bratcher said the men are not believed to be part of a larger group, such as the citizen patrol groups that operate on private property along the Tucson border and use various forms of technology to alert Border Patrol agents to the presence of illegal immigrants in the area.

Also being charged with five counts of endangerment is a 16-year-old Mexican national who Bratcher said was paid $600 to bring the illegal immigrants into the United States. Bratcher also said the illegal immigrants were planning to meet with a taxi cab in Gadsden and were to be taken to a unidentified Yuma hotel, according to interviews done of the illegal immigrants by detectives.

William Robbins, Border Patrol spokesman, said the six illegal immigrants were in the agency's custody as of Wednesday morning but couldn't be interviewed.

Hugo Oliva, Mexican consul in Yuma, said the group was in good condition following the incident and that his office is encouraged by the sheriff's department's efforts regarding this case.

"This is a very disturbing thing to happen here," Oliva said. "We can't have people with guns do the job of law enforcement agencies."

http://yumasun.com/artman/publish/a...tory_6619.shtml


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: citizensarrest; crime; illegalimmigrants
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To: KEVLAR
Thank you for the links.
541 posted on 08/12/2003 7:40:34 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican and Bushbot)
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To: FITZ
California's problems are not because of illegals.

Perhaps I should have said financial problems.

There are a lot of black people on the most wanted pages for Chicago. One might assume the blacks are illegal immigrant criminals from Jamaica, or one might use logic and realize that since a large proportion of the native Chicago population is black it makes sense that the criminals there are black as well. I didn't notice that the LAPD most wanted lists said anything about them being illegal immigrants. Most of the Latino population in LA was born there or legal immigrants.

542 posted on 08/12/2003 8:00:12 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican and Bushbot)
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To: FITZ
Check the link I just posted ---- how many of LA's criminals are immigrants versus long-time Americans?

I did check it, but I see no information regarding the number of illegal immigrants on the most wanted list. Can you pinpoint this information for me please?

543 posted on 08/12/2003 8:02:18 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican and Bushbot)
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To: FITZ
All the people coming across the border aren't bad guys ---- but Mexico really does have a very serious crime problem and nothing stops the worst criminals from just coming on over. There is also high unemployment in many areas of this country --- along the border it's double digit and it's hard to justify bringing in millions of low skilled uneducated people and their families when we're sending out millions of low skilled jobs.

I don't disagree at all and I wrote as much in post 494
"Truthfully I think the most convincing arguments for tightening the borders are the large number of hispanic criminals you find on the federal, state and city "most wanted" lists across this country. These criminals in the true sense of the word criminal. When someone calls all illegal immigrants criminals I believe it minimizes the crimes of rapists, murderers, and dope peddlers. I think some of those latino criminals might not have turned to crime if they could have legally found a job, but I am not naive enough to believe most of the people on our most wanted lists are anything but monsters and a large percentage of them around this country are hispanic."

544 posted on 08/12/2003 8:06:46 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican and Bushbot)
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To: AZ GRAMMY
Arizona Revised Statutes

13-3881. Arrest; how made; force and restraint
A. An arrest is made by an actual restraint of the person to be arrested, or by his submission to the custody of the person making the arrest.

B. No unnecessary or unreasonable force shall be used in making an arrest, and the person arrested shall not be subjected to any greater restraint than necessary for his detention.

13-3884. Arrest by private person
A private person may make an arrest:

1. When the person to be arrested has in his presence committed a misdemeanor amounting to a breach of the peace, or a felony.

2. When a felony has been in fact committed and he has reasonable ground to believe that the person to be arrested has committed it.

13-3889. Method of arrest by private person
A private person when making an arrest shall inform the person to be arrested of the intention to arrest him and the cause of the arrest, unless he is then engaged in the commission of an offense, or is pursued immediately after its commission or after an escape, or flees or forcibly resists before the person making the arrest has opportunity so to inform him, or when the giving of such information will imperil the arrest.

13-3900. Duty of private person after making arrest
A private person who has made an arrest shall without unnecessary delay take the person arrested before the nearest or most accessible magistrate in the county in which the arrest was made, or deliver him to a peace officer, who shall without unnecessary delay take him before such magistrate. The private person or officer so taking the person arrested before the magistrate shall make before the magistrate a complaint, which shall set forth the facts showing the offense for which the person was arrested. If, however, the officer cannot make the complaint, the private person who delivered the person arrested to the officer shall accompany the officer before the magistrate and shall make to the magistrate the complaint against the person arrested.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/title13.htm
545 posted on 08/12/2003 8:14:56 PM PDT by AZ GRAMMY
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To: John O
Someone attacking my country (as illegal border crossers do) deserves only to die.

Speeders, MP3 downloaders and jaywalkers, as well?

Talk about extreme.

546 posted on 08/12/2003 8:17:35 PM PDT by PRND21
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To: AZ GRAMMY
1. When the person to be arrested has in his presence committed a misdemeanor amounting to a breach of the peace, or a felony.

2. When a felony has been in fact committed and he has reasonable ground to believe that the person to be arrested has committed it.

Neither was met, have fun in jail Dumas and buddies.

547 posted on 08/12/2003 8:20:51 PM PDT by PRND21
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To: KEVLAR
Listen pinhead,
you have accused people of being racist for expressing an opinion. I do not owe you anything, least of that which can be easily proven. You clearly have an agenda in this issue. In which case, no amount of proof will suffice, as you are here only to agitate.
Let me know when you have finished "discrediting" the below sources.

I do not wish to get into a pissing match with you. I believe I been civil with you. I have called you no names, and I do not know why you take it upon yourself to defend other poster from what you imply are unfair allegations of racism. You're right I have implied some posters were racist for expressing racist opinions. I've never said you owed me anything, I've only asked if you had anything of substance to back up your opinion. You are under no obligation to prove your opinion is valid...look at novacation

Civility does not mean I need to agree with you or that I am forbidden from pointing out your misstatements. I do have an agenda ( or rather an opinion,) and I have never claimed otherwise. Are you saying you do not? You came to this table with an open mind? I don't believe that either.

Your sources are highly suspect. Talk about an agenda Negative Population Growth and Minnesotans For Sustainability. I barely skimmed these. The Zogby poll from Americans for Immigration Control was more credible but questions like "should the USA admit fewer immigrants each year?" are really poor and don't really gage voter/US citizen interest. I can ask "do you think there is too much sex on Television?" and 60% says yes! but they do not stop watching Jerry Springer or Sex in the City. Try to ban their favorite filthy show and you will really find out what a "big" issue is.

Much more interesting is the Worldviews survey...If you had actually read it you might have seen Question 310:What do you feel are the two or three biggest problems facing the country today? Immigration(Too many immigrants)is rated #13 just below poverty. Thank you for proving my point. Immigration is not an "big" issue. In 2002 6% picked immigration as one of the 2 or 3 biggest problems. In 1998 immigration was picked by 2%. Did we have a huge increase in immigration since 1998? No we did not. What we have had is a recession.

As I have stated before in difficult economic times the ugly head of racism raises it's head higher and illegal immigrants from Mexico make for an easy scapegoat much as the Jews did during the Depression in Germany. You may excuse or even jump on the band wagon it if you wish but I will not be a party to it.

From the above... "* When asked whether the government was doing enough to control the border and screen those allowed into the country, 76 percent said the government was not doing enough and only 19 percent said the government was doing enough. While self-identified conservatives were the most likely to think not enough was being done (83 percent), 74 percent of liberals and 75 percent of moderates also indicated that enforcement was insufficient. In addition, by a margin of more than two to one, blacks, whites, and Hispanics all thought government efforts at border control and vetting of immigrants were inadequate."

This poll was taken 2 weeks after 9-11 when 19 arabs(13 with valid visas) killed 3,000 Americans. 9-11 hardened the heart of America. Not one of the 9-11 terrorists was Mexican but if Zogby had asked me at the time I too would have said we have an immigration problem because of the 9-11 tragedy. Today I can look at 9-11 with some detachment and cold logic. I see 8 - 10 million illegals and 19 terrorist and the link between the 2 is weak indeed.

Your last link is very nice. It has a CBS, USA Today, and a Gallup poll linked. These are certainly mainstream sources and much more credible than the other links. I am too tired to go through all the information linked to that page. I will check them out tomorrow. I will again point out that a poll that says "Americans are more likely to favor decreased over increased immigration." Is not the same as caring about the issue. However the last link ( http://www.fairus.org/html/04120604.htm )does indeed have some meat to chew on. I have already thanked you for the links, I thank you again and I am now finished "discrediting" your sources

548 posted on 08/12/2003 10:03:39 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican and Bushbot)
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To: John O
If they are attempting to cross the border then they are no longer woman and children but enemy combatants. Killing an enemy combatant is never murder. Whether they are armed or not is immaterial, weapons are easy to acquire and terrorism is far to easy to carry out.

You are completely whacked. I pray nobody sells you any ammonium nitrate fertilizer. I'm guessing you

549 posted on 08/12/2003 10:12:05 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican and Bushbot)
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To: John O
I was about to write "I'm guessing you are just a disrupter from DU" and I accidently sent the post as I was checking your homepage. I see you have been at FR a long time. That is really sad. You are a sick man.
550 posted on 08/12/2003 10:25:01 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican and Bushbot)
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To: AZ GRAMMY
French contends the entire United States is the property of every American

Then comrade French screamed "Power to the workers! Property to the people!"

551 posted on 08/12/2003 10:49:57 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican and Bushbot)
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To: Catspaw
See, like al Qaeda member John Walker Lindh, he's a US citizen

In that case he gets tried for treason and (if found guilty) executed under the law. A non-citizen is killed during the course of battle. Subtle but important difference

552 posted on 08/13/2003 5:08:26 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Catspaw
Cuba is a different problem which I haven't addressed much thought to. My initial response is to say yes they are enemy combatants but they are really more like refugees. Since most cubans have every intenet of returning home when fidel dies they are more like foreign guerillas being trained here.

In short I really can't say at this time.

553 posted on 08/13/2003 5:11:11 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Cultural Jihad; Admin Moderator
Killing unarmed women and children is not murder? Are speeders and jaywalkers "enemy combatants" worthy of being shot and shoveled into shallow graves since they commit misdemeanors, too?

Apples and oranges CJ. These 'women and children' are foreign combatants attacking our borders with intenet to harm us. The speeders or jaywalkers are citizens just being stupid.

554 posted on 08/13/2003 5:13:32 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: PRND21
Speeders, MP3 downloaders and jaywalkers, as well?

Apples and oranges. Speeders et al are usually citizens being stupid not foreign combatants

555 posted on 08/13/2003 5:18:48 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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Comment #556 Removed by Moderator

To: Once-Ler
I see you have been at FR a long time. That is really sad. You are a sick man.

I don't see how being at FR a long time makes me a sick man.

Our open borders are the biggest problem facing the US today (I include outsourcing as a border problem also). I have long been a believer that good fences make good neighbors. We need to defend our borders stringently.

Now my ideas may sound heartless and extreme, but that's because they are. I have no mercy for people attacking my country. Once several die and the word gets out that the border is protected the whole problem goes away. No more people making the attempt and no one else dying in the minefields or on the fence. Unfortunately some people will try it even after it is known. I guess that's how mexico will clean its gene pool.

557 posted on 08/13/2003 5:27:51 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Once-Ler
Well then don't make asinine stements like "I bareley skimmmed these" or "If you had actually read it...." I did read it, and would not have provided the link otherwise.
I tell you what, I guess I am racist too, by your standard.

There is no reason that the people of Mexico cannot:

Respect our border. Our border defines our nation, erase it, and what do we have?

Learn the language. Language is part of our culture. I would not move to France and expect them to all bend over backwards to accomodate my not speaking, reading, or writing French. Especially if I broke thier laws to get there. Many of these people have no intention of assimilating in our society in any way. Why should I pay to have every service in this country provided in two languages?

I do have an open mind. You have provided nothing to convince me that I should ignore these things. Let me ask you, what should I expect if I moved to Mexico, or any other country for that matter, in violation of thier laws, and fly the US flag six months out of the year in front of my house, refuse to learn the language, and demand that I recieve services provided to regular citizens?
I'm sure I would get a well deserved ass kicking.
Agenda and opinion are not the same.



558 posted on 08/13/2003 6:14:48 AM PDT by KEVLAR
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To: John O; Admin Moderator; ArneFufkin; justshe

Unarmed women and children crossing the borders without papers are not enemy combatants, fool, but if they are going to be accosted and lynched by Nazis then I hope they do become armed in order to defend their inalienable rights from the psychotic monsters who would do them harm.

559 posted on 08/13/2003 6:57:49 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Once-Ler
those latino criminals might not have turned to crime if they could have legally found a job

Most could have legally found a job in Mexico ---but that might have meant a little hard work. It's too easy to get over the border no matter who you are, who you've murdered. Many are escaping Mexican law by coming over in the first place. There is no control at all, no background checks ----we just had a man murdered last weekend by two guys from Mexico and another incident where two Mexicans shot into a crowd at a public event.

560 posted on 08/13/2003 7:04:41 AM PDT by FITZ
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