Posted on 08/07/2003 8:27:02 PM PDT by AZ GRAMMY
Besides closing the border, which we're perfectly capable of doing if the government decided that's what they wanted, I'd go for employer sanctions to root out illegals. If they can't work, there's no incentive to come here. Put a few CEOs in jail, that will stop the hiring.
We should also cut off welfare and force the police to cooperate with the INS. Every illegal they come into contact gets turned over. Going door to door is not something we need or should do IMO, just enforce the law as its written.
I think your right. Its just a matter of time anyway. Here in Missouri, welfare is scant, liberals are few, and crops are seasonal (soybeans and corn, not much manpower is needed) so illegals are few compared to some states. I think the key is to control the state capitols. If granting driver license to illegals came up in Jefferson City, I'm sure it would fail.
The reason there has not been a socialist uprising in mexico is all their "downtrodden masses" are coming north. It's easier for them to come here than to stay there and fix their own mess. I mean why stay and fight for your own country when you can sneak in and steal ours.
This explains why they vote in droves for someone like Sanchez. It just amazes me how the open-border types just don't see how much damage all these immigrants are doing just at the ballot box. They are the new shock troops of the left and their numbers are becoming overwhelming.
Just think of how many illegals turn up in routine traffic stops. This in turn would discourage other illegals from breaking into our country.
In most parts of the country, unless an illegal has committed a felony the justice system will let them go. I just saw a story about this happening in Georgia. We are not serious about enforcing the laws and that's why there's vigilanteism, people are frustrated and it's the federal government's fault.
After which they may or may not be given a professorship and immediately start teaching their young Latino students how they've been oppressed and misled by the Anglocentric system. Or maybe they start campaigning for Republica del Norte like UNM visiting professor Truxillo:
| New Mexico Professor Advocates Secession for Southwest by Christopher Chow Chicano Studies Professor Charles Truxillo at the University of New Mexico advocates that California, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, and Arizona secede from the United States to form the Chicano republic of El Norte (The North) stretching from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico. The racial consolidation of whites and Asians is also proposed. "As an academic mission I'm proposing it as a thesis. But I'm also an advocate of the idea," Truxillo told Campus Report. "I myself-through the way I teach my classes and to the students I help form in the classroom-that's my activism. A student group at the University of New Mexico has been founded around the idea called El Norte." Truxillo has been teaching Chicano Studies since 1997 at the University of New Mexico where he earned his degree. During that time he has developed a reputation as one of "El Norte's" most outspoken advocates. The University of New Mexico-based El Norte movement is one of racial consolidation that expresses resentment toward the United States for "cultural imperialism" and its immigration policy. "Finally, the American ruling establishment will be forced to acknowledge the failure of its century-long policy of attempting to assimilate the Latino demographic tidal wave by means of a militarized border, oppressive immigration laws, anti-Hispanic cultural legislation, and mass deportations," states El Norte. "These measures will increasingly demoralize the United States, giving the lie to its reputed democratic values." Chicano Studies teaches that Hispanics come to America seeking a better economy but become "strangers in their own land," victims of what Truxillo calls, "cultural imperialism." The only solution he sees is for Hispanics to form their own racial nation state. "Like when Ireland broke away from England or when Croatia broke away from Yugoslavia or the way Palestine is trying to be formed right now in the West Bank in Gaza," says Truxillo. "The main incentive would be so people of the same culture, language, and identity could develop their own nation-state under the principal of self- determination." The El Norte movement might meet resistance from some Hispanics, admits Truxillo. But he is confident his proposal will gain support. There will not be a violent secession as in the Civil War, believes Truxillo, but he teaches that just as the South had the right to secede so does the Southwest, and he has advocated secession, "by any means necessary." Additionally, the El Notre movement has suggested that it would achieve power via military strength. "Accumulated wealth can be used to procure military technology, small arms or weapons of mass destruction if need be, which could be used as a deterrent," proclaims El Norte. "The myth of the stereotypical docile Indian who lives in harmony with his enemies, that has been perpetuated by white liberals, and even perpetuated by many tourist-oriented Indians, will be eradicated." El Norte would not be the only race-based nation-state predicts Truxillo. He advocates races all over the world consolidating into ethnic empires. The U.S. and Canada would merge into a white English speaking empire. Asians too would want to unite as a nation state in the Pacific, predicts Truxillo. Truxillo assured Campus Report that there would be no imperial conquest like that of Japan during World War II. The Asian nations would choose to merge so they could consolidate their power into a racial block. "Communism's day is over. Even the communism of China is an official ideology but it's a capitalist society now, it's just not a democratic one." Critics contend that major economic and cultural differences not only keep these countries apart, but in opposition to each other. Truxillo believes the United States would fear a military alliance between El Norte and the Asian block and therefore allow El Norte to secede peacefully in order to remain on good terms. If El Norte is not allowed to secede, Hispanics will form a military alliance with the Asian block against the United States. As evidence to support his thesis, Truxillo cites the collapse of the Soviet Union, a collapse which he blames on excessive ethnic diversity in the U.S.S.R. "The Russian majority was feeling overwhelmed by these ethnic minorities including these Muslims from Central Asia. And a very high level strategic decision was taken, basically to form the Central Asian Islamic countries into an independent area," states Truxillo. "All our lives we were told this was a powerful totalitarian state, that it was a threat to the free world and yet it broke apart rather easily." Part of Truxillo's course is contrasting his theories of cultural alienation of Hispanics by American culture with that of feminists' discontent with society. "Certainly when minority women take up the very same ideas and ideologies American feminists are presenting, you wonder if that is not a case of cultural imperialism," he professed. The theory of Hispanic secession and the formation of a separate nation-state has become a growing cause in recent years. In 2001, a New Mexico legislator introduced a resolution to rename the state "Nuevo Mexico." In 1999 the Texas town of El Cenizo declared Spanish the official language and made cooperation with the I.N.S. by city employees illegal. Critics, such as University of New Mexico Political Science Professor Joseph Stewart who teaches "Racial/Ethnic Politics," point out that Hispanics have traditionally chosen to come to America, not leave it. He sees that as Hispanics immigrate to the United States, they become assimilated into American culture. While some like Truxillo see "cultural imperialism," they are in the minority. "It seems to me that what you're getting is more cultural homogenization," said Stewart. "There's at least some evidence that the Mexican-American population is becoming diffused much more broadly geographically in this country. At least in the United States, I don't see the Hispanic population becoming more distinct but in fact becoming less distinct." Truxillo stands by his thesis. "These areas were bonded for hundreds of years under the old Spanish Empire. So they share a much longer history together than they've shared apart under the United States." Truxillo believes secession is inevitable but will not happen soon. He predicts El Norte's recognition between 2050 and 2080. "I may not live to see the Hispanic homeland, but by the end of the century my students' kids will live in it, sovereign and free." |
Almost all my family members are all God fearing patriotic racist union democrats. My first vote, fresh out of my high school indoctrination was for Dukakis. Then I got a job, moved out on my own, and began paying taxes. With the help of Rush Limbaugh, I soon discovered I am a Republican. I voted for Bush, Dole, and Dubya. I am a dues paying member of the RNC and the Republican Party of Wisconsin. I have been to 3 Republicans State conventions. I have shaken the hands of Bob Dornan, Alan Keyes and then Governor Dubya.
The population of the planet was half then what it is now.
If I had to guess I’d say affluence, low child mortality, and the rise of corporate farms has diminished the instinct for survival/procreation. In the 1900s most families farmed their own food. Farmer’s needed bear several sons to help with the farm and because only some would live to become adults. Today migrant workers and machines have created cheap and plentiful food.
which side are you on?
I’m on America’s side. My comments about the Injuns was to point out if you go far enough back your predecessors were not born in America, and if the Injuns could have argued against letting in immigrants they probably would have uses words just like yours to keep you from being an American today.
I’m on my Party’s side. In the 1920s-1930 the Republican Party pushed through several anti-immigration bills and anti-trade bills. The two go hand in hand...witness Buchanan. Soon came Depression and 60 years of Democratic control of House and Senate. I do not believe in coincidences.
You quote Reagan's comments about being a beacon to the world as though it automatically sustains your position.
I quote Reagan because he is intensely popular among Republicans and I agree with so much that he said…like this from his acceptance speech at the Republican convention in 1980. I’ll provide a link because the whole thing rocks!
Can we doubt that only a Divine Providence placed this land, this island of freedom, here as a refuge for all those people in the world who yearn to breathe freely: Jews and Christians enduring persecution behind the Iron Curtain, the boat people of Southeast Asia, of Cuba and Haiti, the victims of drought and famine in Africa, the freedom fighters of Afghanistan and our own countrymen held in savage captivity.
You don't seem to know as wide a range of immigrants as I do.
You know nothing about me and even if you assertion is true it means nothing. I am 100% Polish (the true MASTER RACE) My great Grandparents on my mother's and father's side couldn’t speak a word of English when they got off the boat. They came to America as part of the second wave of Polish immigration. This probably indicates I have Jewish heritage as well, but I suspect my grandparents felt it was safer to be called a stupid Pollack rather than a dirty Jew in the early 1900s.
I didn't say there weren't exceptions. And I didn't say even that most of them have the negative characteristics that I cited.
“I’m not racist, some of my favorite immigrants have no negative characteristics”…fascinating.
how much blood has your family given for this country?
Both my grandfathers fought in WW2 but my mom’s father took a bullet in the pacific, and her oldest brother fought in Korea. My father lost an uncle in Korea (poor bastard never saw combat, he was killed during training.) My brother loaded bombs for the Airforce in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War. I don’t have to justify my existence to any man, but I just wanted you to know that my story is typical of millions of other Americans that you don’t think are worthy to wash your car, clean your toilets, or mow your lawn.
From a tribute page for Army PFC Diego Fernando Rincon…he was awarded his citizenship posthumously
I'm sure you know about Diego Rincon of Conyers who died fighting for this great country of ours in Iraq. His father, George, owns the carpet cleaning service that we use. My wife talked to him the other day and even though his son died, all he could say between the choke ups is how proud he is to be in this country (I believe they are from Colombia originally), and how proud he is that his son chose to defend this country. We told him that at the very least his son died the most honorable death there is, and that we were very proud to have him and his family here in the greatest country in the world.
Those of us who have given our family's blood for this country might have a different opinion from yours, so quick to open the floodgates to the exponential population explosion happening outside.
Diego’s father lost his son and he is proud as hell to be here. I’m proud as hell he is in this country making a living. You have more in common with the Kennedy family’s pomposity than with most middle class Americans, Mr. we've been here since 1655. I said it before, but I feel I must repeat it...I can tell the difference between a person like you and the Mexican immigrants who are happy they don't have to make their sister sleep with the sheriff. They marvel at the limitless freedom of this country and you fret that America is nearly destroyed.
If I am guilty of reading this paragraph wrong then my appologies...
I personally know immigrants from all of the groups I cited, and right now I'm annoyed by most of them for separate reasons. You don't seem to know as wide a range of immigrants as I do. I didn't say there weren't exceptions. And I didn't say even that most of them have the negative characteristics that I cited. But it doesn't take that many before there is real trouble. And there is.
I believe the characteristics you refer to are in post 450 they are:
They come here for a handout
H1B visa holders detest American foreign policy.
Green card holders think that President Bush is stupid.
Unskilled Latino workers don't think they ever need to learn English.
They are Islamic or follow some other bizarre cult-like religion and have no intention of giving up their backward, ethnocentric belief systems
It seems to me that you are talking about race and legal immigration since you reference Latinos, H1B visa's, and green cards. Perhaps you can help he to overcome my confusion.
I think you have summed up our 2 opposing philosophies perfectly. I believe what makes America great is her freedom, and her people. It is our freedom that allows new innovations and new marketable products. I'm not worried about cheap labor, because I won't work that cheaply. I love cheap manufactured goods made in China...especially the ones that return pennies for tons of pollution. The future is in information and services not manufactured goods. What services? What information? I don't know but think about this... Karl Rove probably got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for advice(information) the 2000 campaign employed commercial creators (services) and the campaigns raised $2.25 billion raised by federal candidates.
Don't like politics? Lets try sports I've got 2 dozen sports channels on digital cable. Satellite owners have even more and when very high bandwidth internet becomes standard the sources for sports entertainment and information will be too numerous to count. Besides the shows think about the hats, jerseys, magazines, fantasy teams, trading cards.
Let China make the trading cards as long as American truckers ship them, American stores sell them, and American governments tax them.
America is only limited by Americans with no vision. That is not Dubya.
I really appreciate the hard-working and patriotic immigrants of yesteryear. A lot of them could teach us about why America is a great place, just as you've said. But things are changing, I'm here to report. America is an ATM for a lot of these people. An ATM that they belittle and resent while they're standing in line.
The kinds of attacks I've heard on our hegemony in the world range from denunciations of our use of nuclear force to our support of Israel. I've heard from several Pacific rim immigrants that we started WWII by blockading Japan. People from multiple continents have warned me about the Jews and how they're manipulating our nation. I've heard from Latinos that we manipulate the Mexican economy to keep it less powerful than our own. And I've heard from east Asians that we're the cause of the tensions with North Korea, and China over Taiwan. One of the most ironic criticisms comes from Hindus who wanted us to disarm Pakistan before we took on Iraq. I'm still hearing about that.
Would you believe how many people from foreign countries love and adore Michael Moore?
Other than the issue of refusing to learn English, I could have been debating with a lot of Democrats. But this has been fairly consistent in my experience.
We agree on something! I'm not a 100% Bush bot, but I act like one. I'll keep acting like one through 2004, I'm sure. I'm sure he and I disagree about immigration, but I know better than to be a one or two issue voter.
Maybe they love Moore until they come to America.
Many(Most?)of the people who really hate this country were born here, and have reaped great rewards because they live here. Moore, Penn, Balwin, Streisand, Oliver Stone, Jane Fonda, Garofalo, Dixie Chicks, ect.
We obviously have not met the same immigrants. I don't know every Mexican but I have had interactions with several dozen, and the ones I do know don't hate America. I'm less afraid of the Pro-Life Catholic Latino influence on our culture than black gangster rap ebonics, which I remind you, is not coming from Africa. It's coming from AMERICANS in AMERICA's inner cities and from liberal AMERICAN university professors who teach it. The gang-bangers in our inner cities are not fresh off the boat. Our problems are not being imported. They were born here and they hate America.
Truthfully I think the most convincing arguments for tightening the borders are the large number of hispanic criminals you find on the federal, state and city "most wanted" lists across this country. These criminals in the true sense of the word criminal. When someone calls all illegal immigrants criminals I believe it minimizes the crimes of rapists, murderers, and dope peddlers. I think some of those latino criminals might not have turned to crime if they could have legally found a job, but I am not naive enough to believe most of the people on our most wanted lists are anything but monsters and a large percentage of them around this country are hispanic.
At FR we are discussing the politics that affect freedom, prosperity, and often who lives and dies. Being overly polite is often a horrible way to exchange ideas. When writing about big ideas, strong words are appropriate IMHO. The fact is in this age of political correctness, even on a conservative forum, people are often afraid to say what they really mean because they are afraid they will hurt someone’s feelings or bring the wrath of Freepers or the Admin Monitor upon them. Often it is only when we are outraged at someone that we tell them the truth. I always enjoy a good argument. If anything I wrote seemed too harsh or unfair don’t take it personally. I don’t know you at all except for what you have written. I am glad you agressively challenged me, and you had the testicular fortitude to stand up for your opinions. It is an admirable quality. Many people are not willing to defend their opinions when faced with opposition. While we disagree, I am sure that you love your country just as much as I do, and you want the best for your children’s future. While you have not convinced me of your argument, I have found writing to you very valuable in that you have forced me to re-evaluate and further solidified my own opinion. I don’t recall the author or the quote exactly, but it goes something like this…”anyone who knows only one side of an argument, does not really know that side very well.”
adios cruz !
BY LOUIE VILLALOBOS
Aug 10, 2003
The two men accused of unlawfully detaining six illegal immigrants at gunpoint have either been married or are married to immigrants and each have a son who is half Mexican, family members said on Saturday.
In order to refute the perception that their son and husband are racists vigilantes, the wife of Alexander Dumas and the father of Matthew Hoffman spoke to The Sun about what their loved ones are accused of doing and why they may have done it.
"I want everyone to know that Alex isn't racist," said Dumas' Guatemalan wife, who asked she not be identified. "He's not that kind of person."
Authorities have said that both Dumas and Hoffman detained six illegal immigrants, including three children, on July 31 by pointing guns at them and handcuffing them until Border Patrol agents arrived.
Both men are currently facing six counts of aggravated assault and five counts of unlawful imprisonment and one count of conspiracy to commit unlawful imprisonment following the incident.
Dumas' wife, who came to the U.S. on a visa as a child, said the two men are longtime friends who drove to Yuma on July 30 from Dumas' home in Big Bear Lake, Calif. She said the men decided to go out early on July 31.
Deputies said they went to the area of County 18th Street and the Colorado River, in Gadsden.
"They said let's go Mexican hunting," she said. "That was Matt's idea."
Though she believes they may have looked for illegal immigrants once before, Dumas' wife said her husband definitely regretted going out that day. After driving back home on Aug. 1, Dumas' wife said her husband spoke about the incident and said he helped detain women and children.
Adding to his regret, she said, was that Dumas has a 3-year-old son with a Mexican woman from a previous relationship and that his mother is a Japanese woman who first arrived to the United States with a visa.
"He told me 'I don't have the heart to do that,'" she said. "He said he wasn't going to do it again."
Martin Hoffman said though his son is against illegal immigrants, he did not go out that morning specifically to find some. He said the men were in the area and were startled when the group came out of the bushes.
"They were there off-roading and happen to stumble across them." he said.
He said his son was married to a Mexican national who is now living in San Diego with a visa and the two have a son together.
The night of the incident, Martin Hoffman said his son called his ex-wife and asked her to tell the illegal immigrants what was going on.
"She verified that they were illegal and informed them that they were under citizen's arrest," he said.
Martin Hoffman said his son told family members about the incident and didn't expect to be arrested. Then, on Monday, deputies arrived with a search warrant and handcuffed everyone in the house, he said.
A copy of the warrant provided to the family shows deputies were looking for a variety of things, including communications and optical devices and guns, he said. When they left, he said they took with them 22 items that included three computers, a BB gun, a blue notebook, handcuffs and one gun.
Family members for both men said they will not be able to raise the bond money needed to have them released while the matter goes through the court system or a lawyer. Dumas and Matthew Hoffman are being held on a bond of $88,000 and $68,000, respectively.
As they wait for the outcome of the what the wife called poor judgement and the father called an accident, family members said they are in agreement that whatever the men may have done wasn't done out of racism.
"As far as them trying to make it sound like a hate crime, that's totally ridiculous," Martin Hoffman said.
--- Louie Villalobos can be reached at lvillalobos@yumasun.com or 539-6858.
© Copyright, YumaSun.com
You don't pay taxes novac. You are too stupid to have a job, much less fill out a 1040. I bet you are unemployed and living off of mental disability from the government. You are pissed off because the state won't give you more money and you think it is because the illegals are eating up your monthly booze money. The sad thing is if the social service worker really knew what kind of a loser you really are you would receive twice as much in your disability check in the hopes of early liver failure.
Don't want to here it. Too bad.I don't take orders from socialists or illegals so done bother telling me what to do.
I see you still can't read you moron. I didn't order you to do anything I said "Please do not bother responding further."
Are you sure English isn't a second language for you?
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
It's not my estimate it is the Center for Immigrant Studies. Whenever I give statistics for which there may be dispute I attribute them. You pull figures out of your ass. You have yet to attribute your fictitious $1,600 figure.
If you had any brains you could go look at the figures for LA at http://www.losangelesalmanac.com/topics/Population/po24la.htm
It shows that 2000 US Census says there are 1,719,073 in Los Angeles. No problem you were only off by about 75%. That makes you stupid enought to write California budgets. You could have run for Governor with Larry Flynt, Angelyne, and Gary Coleman.
Do I have to correct you every time you post...Can I just follow you around FreeRepublic and reply "Novac is drunk...move on to the next message."
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